Author Topic: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread  (Read 105466 times)

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Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #750: October 26, 2012, 11:41:43 AM »
No to Lombo anywhere in the starting lineup.

Is there an opposite emoticon of :az:? I want one for Lombardozzi.

Why the hate for Lombo?  He's the ideal 4th infielder.  And a 5th infielder is a guy capable of playing for an extended period of time and he can play at 3 positions if necessary.   He'd be starting on about 20 different rosters.  And, as Smithian pointed out, he was only a rookie!

Offline NationalHeat

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #751: October 26, 2012, 11:52:45 AM »
Exactly, he IS the idea 4th INF. But thats it.

I see Espinosa=non-roiding early Brett Boone. And I see Lombo as a poor man's Eckstein. I wouldn't replace one with the other.

Offline NationalHeat

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #752: October 26, 2012, 11:54:32 AM »
In fact, they are eerily similar. Boone and Espi are of similar height and build, and similar power and OPS numbers.

Offline Slateman

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #753: October 26, 2012, 01:10:54 PM »
I guess I'm into OPS way too much. I love guys that can get on base, hit for power, and play defense. Thats my ideal player, think Werth with the Phillies.

I know you can't get this everywhere, but I'd like a starter to have at least 2 of those qualities. Thats why I'm deathly against Lombo>Espinosa. Lombardozzi is good for what he does now.

Espinosa doesn't get on base and his power regressed in 2012.

Offline Kevrock

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #754: October 26, 2012, 01:12:12 PM »
Desmond doesn't get on base and his power regressed in 2011.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #755: October 26, 2012, 02:14:31 PM »
I still like Angel Pagan.  Cheap and decent player.  Sacrifice either Morse's or LaRoche's bat but will upgrade defense significantly in the outfield.  Inexpensive so that would hopefully allow Nats to go after a better SP in free agency while still extending JZ.

I doubt they spend $15 mil/year on an outfielder and then $10+ mil/yr on a pitcher.  Especially if they bring LaRoche back for $12+ mil.

The above is more or less true with Victorino, but he's a little older and maybe a bit more expensive.  Better defender, though.

Offline Slateman

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #756: October 26, 2012, 02:30:15 PM »
If we don't re-sign Adam Laroche, what about trading for Jose Tabata from the Pirates? Shouldn't cost much and he still has some upside.

Offline Vega

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #757: October 26, 2012, 03:07:05 PM »
If we don't re-sign Adam Laroche, what about trading for Jose Tabata from the Pirates? Shouldn't cost much and he still has some upside.
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Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #758: October 26, 2012, 03:11:24 PM »
Quote
Espinosa doesn't get on base and his power regressed in 2012.
.315 OBP for Espinosa in a down year, .317 for Lombardozzi.  neither is adequate for top of the order.  Both can get hot for stretchs (look at Espinosa's OBP in July (.330) and August (.331) then looks at Lombo's .314 & .360), but neither is ideal up there. 

Offline WhiteWhale

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #759: October 26, 2012, 04:00:57 PM »
Scutaro -

- after shining in the brightest of lights, is he going to expect a starting job? he has been a starter, a lot of that having to do with tulo going down - and he will be 37 soon.
- is he really just an older Lombo? seems to have more pop to me
- is having him and Lombo redudant?

I like the idea of having more than one guy who can play infield on the bench, and maybe he puts more pressure on Danny to perform than Lombo does.

Offline NationalHeat

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #760: October 26, 2012, 04:26:28 PM »
Scutaro -

- after shining in the brightest of lights, is he going to expect a starting job? he has been a starter, a lot of that having to do with tulo going down - and he will be 37 soon.
- is he really just an older Lombo? seems to have more pop to me
- is having him and Lombo redudant?

I like the idea of having more than one guy who can play infield on the bench, and maybe he puts more pressure on Danny to perform than Lombo does.

He'll definitely want to start.

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #761: October 26, 2012, 04:31:51 PM »
I still like Angel Pagan.  Cheap and decent player.  Sacrifice either Morse's or LaRoche's bat but will upgrade defense significantly in the outfield.  Inexpensive so that would hopefully allow Nats to go after a better SP in free agency while still extending JZ.

I doubt they spend $15 mil/year on an outfielder and then $10+ mil/yr on a pitcher.  Especially if they bring LaRoche back for $12+ mil.

The above is more or less true with Victorino, but he's a little older and maybe a bit more expensive.  Better defender, though.

Agreed about Pagan.  He's not bad with the bat either.  Gets on base at an acceptable clip and swipes bases.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #762: October 26, 2012, 04:41:49 PM »
Scutaro -

- after shining in the brightest of lights, is he going to expect a starting job? he has been a starter, a lot of that having to do with tulo going down - and he will be 37 soon.
- is he really just an older Lombo? seems to have more pop to me
- is having him and Lombo redudant?

I like the idea of having more than one guy who can play infield on the bench, and maybe he puts more pressure on Danny to perform than Lombo does.

He can probably find a starting job and a 2 year deal somewhere.  He'd be great as a reserve on a one year deal for the Nats, though.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #763: October 26, 2012, 04:43:30 PM »
If we don't re-sign Adam Laroche, what about trading for Jose Tabata from the Pirates? Shouldn't cost much and he still has some upside.

He's a good bounce-back candidate, but I think the Nats are past the point of relying on the bounce-back candidate type players. 

Offline nobleisthyname

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #764: October 26, 2012, 08:26:05 PM »
Espinosa doesn't get on base and his power regressed in 2012.

He gets on at the same clip as Lombo. How is Lombo ideal for spot starts leading off? Let alone the people who want to replace Espi with him  :shock:

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #765: October 26, 2012, 08:33:12 PM »
If you look at the roster,  is there anywhere on offense other than 2b were the team could actually improve?   

Offline Slateman

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #766: October 26, 2012, 09:05:31 PM »
He gets on at the same clip as Lombo. How is Lombo ideal for spot starts leading off? Let alone the people who want to replace Espi with him  :shock:

He's not ideal, but he's a better option in the 1 or 2 hole than Espinosa. Those strikeouts are costly, as noted by his metrics.

If you look at the roster,  is there anywhere on offense other than 2b were the team could actually improve?   

RF and catcher.

And I'm extremely skeptical that Desmond can repeat his performance.

Offline Mattionals

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #767: October 26, 2012, 09:11:07 PM »
He's not ideal, but he's a better option in the 1 or 2 hole than Espinosa. Those strikeouts are costly, as noted by his metrics.

RF and catcher.

And I'm extremely skeptical that Desmond can repeat his performance.

Harper is a more ideal hitter in the 2 hole than Espinosa.  SABR junkies believe it is so!  In ol' summabich hard nosed terms, he gets on base and has just enough power right now to be perfect in the two hole.

I assume you also think that Werth is a bad RF (he is not) and that there is something better out there than Ramos/Suzuki at catcher.  Suzuki is great for right now and Ramos has tremendous upside at Catcher if he can go back to defending strong again.

Offline Slateman

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #768: October 26, 2012, 09:23:45 PM »
Werth was not good in RF at all this season. Three seasons in a row of negative DRS says so. So do my eyes as well as the eyes of many posters on here. Werth needs to move to LF soon. And his offensive performance will drop will not sustain that. His BABIP was almost 30 points higher than his career. Last season will most likely be the best season we get out of Werth.


Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #769: October 26, 2012, 09:35:15 PM »
When did you decide to just troll the Nats constantly?

4 out of 8 position players can be upgraded?  On a 98 win team?  I guess LaRoche can be replaced with Votto and Morse with Ryan Braun, but it's probably not going to happen.

Werth's batting average and BABIP were above his career norms.  His slugging was down, most likely because he injured his wrist.  His 2011 BABIP was about 40 points under his career average, so that was also probably an outlier.

Offline Mattionals

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #770: October 26, 2012, 09:48:59 PM »
Werth was not good in RF at all this season. Three seasons in a row of negative DRS says so. So do my eyes as well as the eyes of many posters on here. Werth needs to move to LF soon. And his offensive performance will drop will not sustain that. His BABIP was almost 30 points higher than his career. Last season will most likely be the best season we get out of Werth.

I'm not expecting Werth to hit .300 and mash 30 homers a year.  He made some good defensive plays and made some bad mistakes, like, you know, the one where he covers his head in fear of a ball hitting him when he lost it in the sun?

Yes he is getting closer to being a LF, but he still has some good speed and a decent enough arm that would make him like a Braun in LF.  GG?  Nope, but much more serviceable and threatening than Morse defensively.

If the Nats decide to move on a FA CF and move Harper to RF and Werth to LF, it would need to be a stopgap type guy like Angel Pagan, but I think Pagan stays in SF.  Victorino could be an option if he doesn't get a long term deal from any other team and that may happen but given his skill set, I bet he gets a 4 or 5 year deal.

If the Nats do go out and get someone like B.J. Upton or Bourn, then likely Goodwin is traded.  Seeing what the kid can produce in the minors, I'd say Goodwin is a better bet than Bourn or Upton, and I'm a huge Upton fan.  Sure both Upton and Bourn are established, but all three players are similar with speed and defensive ability, and all strike out a lot.  Bourn has less power and is a better lead off hitter than Upton, but Goodwin might be the balanced lead off hitter with some power that would be great for this team.

As much as I thought that the Nats should go out and sign someone like Upton (unless a trade for J Upton is possible), I like the idea of promoting the young talent and saving the money for keeping all the talent.

Offline Slateman

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #771: October 26, 2012, 09:55:18 PM »
When did you decide to just troll the Nats constantly?

4 out of 8 position players can be upgraded?  On a 98 win team?  I guess LaRoche can be replaced with Votto and Morse with Ryan Braun, but it's probably not going to happen.

Werth's batting average and BABIP were above his career norms.  His slugging was down, most likely because he injured his wrist.  His 2011 BABIP was about 40 points under his career average, so that was also probably an outlier.

Where did you learn to count? RF and C is two.

And every position on this team can be upgraded. I just don't think it's reasonably possible to do so.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #772: October 26, 2012, 10:07:45 PM »
What happened to second base and being extremely skeptical of Desmond?  That would make 4.

Offline Vega

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #773: October 26, 2012, 10:10:26 PM »
This what annoys me the most about many Sabremetrics nuts: they seem to think that every player that isn't a baseball god like Mike Trout sucks and needs to be replaced. Not every player on a team has to be a superstar.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #774: October 26, 2012, 10:11:48 PM »
I'm not expecting Werth to hit .300 and mash 30 homers a year.  He made some good defensive plays and made some bad mistakes, like, you know, the one where he covers his head in fear of a ball hitting him when he lost it in the sun?

Yes he is getting closer to being a LF, but he still has some good speed and a decent enough arm that would make him like a Braun in LF.  GG?  Nope, but much more serviceable and threatening than Morse defensively.

If the Nats decide to move on a FA CF and move Harper to RF and Werth to LF, it would need to be a stopgap type guy like Angel Pagan, but I think Pagan stays in SF.  Victorino could be an option if he doesn't get a long term deal from any other team and that may happen but given his skill set, I bet he gets a 4 or 5 year deal.

If the Nats do go out and get someone like B.J. Upton or Bourn, then likely Goodwin is traded.  Seeing what the kid can produce in the minors, I'd say Goodwin is a better bet than Bourn or Upton, and I'm a huge Upton fan.  Sure both Upton and Bourn are established, but all three players are similar with speed and defensive ability, and all strike out a lot.  Bourn has less power and is a better lead off hitter than Upton, but Goodwin might be the balanced lead off hitter with some power that would be great for this team.

As much as I thought that the Nats should go out and sign someone like Upton (unless a trade for J Upton is possible), I like the idea of promoting the young talent and saving the money for keeping all the talent.

If they can't sign Pagan or Victorino to a reasonable deal, I'd stay away from a big free agent center fielder.  They can make a trade for someone by including Morse, Clippard, and maybe a minor leaguer or someone on the 40 man roster.  Ellsbury could be available.  Maybe Parra if Upton is not traded.  The A's may have too many outfielders.

Or they could just try Morse and Moore there again.

But I'd rather spend resources on the starting rotation and bullpen than on Bourn or BJ Upton.