Author Topic: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread  (Read 103522 times)

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Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #400: October 17, 2012, 06:54:09 PM »
Tyler says he wants to pass on any known roiders. Simply pointing out that we have a known roider and it has paid off.

Melky on a one year, prove it deal, is a good option if the club decides to trade Morse.

Assuming they come to an agreement with LaRoche, if they trade Morse, that's more a sign to me they're going to go with Moore than it will be they are going to seek an option from outside the organization.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #401: October 17, 2012, 06:55:51 PM »
the year before that he batted .274 with a .336 OBP and 13 homers.  So if he started juicing in 2011 then he is still a good hitter.

his previous WAR high was 1.7. Now he's worth over 4 wins. Something changed!

Offline MorseTheHorse

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #402: October 17, 2012, 06:58:18 PM »
the year before that he batted .274 with a .336 OBP and 13 homers.  So if he started juicing in 2011 then he is still a good hitter.

Stats much worse then Morse in any of his last 3 seasons.  Sure Morse isn't a gold glove in the field, but is Cabrera an improvement there?

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #403: October 17, 2012, 07:01:58 PM »
Melky on a one year, prove it deal, is a good option if the club decides to trade Morse.

eve if we let laroche walk and move morse to first, melky could still fit in left

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #404: October 17, 2012, 07:05:12 PM »
Stats much worse then Morse in any of his last 3 seasons.  Sure Morse isn't a gold glove in the field, but is Cabrera an improvement there?

The thing is next year it will be a wSte to have Bryce in the two hole.  We need to have him in a spot where he can drive in runs (ie cleanup).  That means we will need a new table setter and melky would look great between werth and Zimmerman.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #405: October 17, 2012, 08:06:48 PM »
Take away the 'roid-fueled MVP year this year and he's just OK.  No better than Morse.  Is it worth taking on a guy with a reputation like Melky's for that kind of production?  There are plenty of other players who would be just as good.  Shane Victorino could do the same thing and play very good defense in CF, for example.  Angel Pagan is another guy.

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #406: October 17, 2012, 08:11:49 PM »
Take away the 'roid-fueled MVP year this year and he's just OK.  No better than Morse.  Is it worth taking on a guy with a reputation like Melky's for that kind of production?  There are plenty of other players who would be just as good.  Shane Victorino could do the same thing and play very good defense in CF, for example.  Angel Pagan is another guy.

Victorino wants a multi yer deal and had a down year.  Angel pagan is well, angel pagan

Offline Slateman

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #407: October 17, 2012, 08:15:41 PM »
Take away the 'roid-fueled MVP year this year and he's just OK.  No better than Morse.  Is it worth taking on a guy with a reputation like Melky's for that kind of production?  There are plenty of other players who would be just as good.  Shane Victorino could do the same thing and play very good defense in CF, for example.  Angel Pagan is another guy.

You're assuming PEDs are responsible. He was better in 2011 than Morse was in 2012.

Offline Slateman

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #408: October 17, 2012, 08:39:39 PM »
My point is this: If Rizzo had said the same thing, we wouldn't have Michael Morse on the squad. He popped three times for steroids. Rizzo did his homework and took a chance. It has paid off.

And I don't want Melky. Not because he popped for synthetic testosterone, which is about the most maskable PED ever, but because of the crap that he did to try and cover it up instead of admitting it. That's the difference between the two.

But this crap about Melky not being good before is just that. Crap. He's steadily improved since leaving the Braves. Posted a 4 WAR season with the Royals without popping on a test.

Online KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #409: October 17, 2012, 08:44:41 PM »
You're assuming PEDs are responsible.

I bet you think Brady Anderson hit 50 homers on his own.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #410: October 17, 2012, 08:47:34 PM »
I bet you think Brady Anderson hit 50 homers on his own.

Or that Cal was really made of iron.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #411: October 17, 2012, 08:48:32 PM »
Morse was suspended in 2005 for steroids he took in 2003.  Nats acquired him in 2009.  He and Cabrera are not the same.

Pagan was worth 5 wins this year.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #412: October 17, 2012, 08:50:45 PM »
Here is the story on the Morse suspension - http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2154494

Offline ZIM4MVP

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #413: October 17, 2012, 08:53:02 PM »
Here is the story on the Morse suspension - http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2154494

How the freak does a former SS look that bad in the OF?

Offline Slateman

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #414: October 17, 2012, 08:57:08 PM »
How the freak does a former SS look that bad in the OF?

Injuries. Morse has a long history of injuries. Its why he took steroids in the first place.

And I know the story. He claims he took them in November of 2003. Tests positive in 2005. Took Deca-durabolin.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #415: October 17, 2012, 09:09:28 PM »
Injuries. Morse has a long history of injuries. Its why he took steroids in the first place.

And I know the story. He claims he took them in November of 2003. Tests positive in 2005. Took Deca-durabolin.

It looks pretty different from Melky's situation.  Not only in what he did and the age at which he did it, but also in that 2003 was a very different time than 2012. 

Offline The Chief

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #416: October 17, 2012, 09:09:53 PM »
You're assuming PEDs are responsible.

I bet you think Brady Anderson hit 50 homers on his own.

I assume the majority of players are using PEDs and just aren't getting caught.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #417: October 17, 2012, 09:11:48 PM »
Here is Pagan's fangraphs page - Worth about 5 wins in 2010 and 2012.  3 wins in 2009.  Had a down year in 2011 but had a BABIP about 30 points lower than his career average.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=2918&position=OF

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #418: October 17, 2012, 09:17:05 PM »
Here is Pagan's fangraphs page - Worth about 5 wins in 2010 and 2012.  3 wins in 2009.  Had a down year in 2011 but had a BABIP about 30 points lower than his career average.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=2918&position=OF

not bad, but pagan doesn't seem like rizzo's type of player.

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #419: October 17, 2012, 09:17:12 PM »
Here is Pagan's fangraphs page - Worth about 5 wins in 2010 and 2012.  3 wins in 2009.  Had a down year in 2011 but had a BABIP about 30 points lower than his career average.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=2918&position=OF

not bad, but pagan doesn't seem like rizzo's type of player.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #420: October 17, 2012, 09:18:25 PM »
not bad, but pagan doesn't seem like rizzo's type of player.

Paradoxically named former mets?

Offline cmdterps44

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #421: October 17, 2012, 09:29:19 PM »
wait Morse is a known roider?

I want Josh Hamilton

Offline Slateman

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #422: October 17, 2012, 09:51:57 PM »
wait Morse is a known roider?

I want Josh Hamilton

Popped in 2004 and 2005. Admitted to it. Took it when he had a torn muscle.

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #423: October 17, 2012, 09:53:55 PM »
Popped in 2004 and 2005. Admitted to it. Took it when he had a torn muscle.

non-issue.  still a good character guy.  I'm not saying you think this way, but I feel that a lot of people think that every athlete who uses steroids is a dick.  Then they learn that one of their favorite players tested positive a while ago and they make lame excuses and try to overlook it.  steroids don't make you a dick but there are dicks who use them (A-roid).

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #424: October 17, 2012, 09:57:12 PM »
not bad, but pagan doesn't seem like rizzo's type of player.

As compared to Melky Cabrera?