Author Topic: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread  (Read 72974 times)

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Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #350: October 17, 2012, 10:19:31 AM »
I'd take Melky on the kind of show me contract he'll probably take, but if he's looking for a deal based on his recent numbers, no way

Offline welch

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #351: October 17, 2012, 10:39:11 AM »
Not saying that I want him, but I'm really curious to see what the market for Melky will be because he was a pretty major disappointment before he got to San Francisco and subsequently busted for 'roids.

Melky without roids is the old Melky I know-and-love from his Yankee days: a decent OF who hits .250. He would have been an upgrade to the 2010 or 2011 Nats, but not to this team.

You can probably spot his juicing by looking at his hitting. The Yankee years are the real Melky; look for the spike. That's the roids.

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #352: October 17, 2012, 11:18:41 AM »
Roids aren't the only thing that causes players to get better.

Offline Upark25

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #353: October 17, 2012, 11:30:18 AM »
I'd rather not have Melky on this team. We don't need any more controversies after the whole Strasburg/Rizzo drama. We saw what that did in the postseason.

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #354: October 17, 2012, 11:41:39 AM »
I'd take Melky on the kind of show me contract he'll probably take, but if he's looking for a deal based on his recent numbers, no way

I don't even want that.  He SUCKED at the plate prior to this year and we want to add him and hit him second? 

NO THANKS

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #355: October 17, 2012, 11:46:14 AM »
I don't even want that.  He SUCKED at the plate prior to this year and we want to add him and hit him second? 

NO THANKS

because on a cheap contract, if he has a rough start (I might even part ways in ST if he's not looking back to form), you cut bait, and who said hit him second, I'd slot him 8 or 9.

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #356: October 17, 2012, 11:56:39 AM »
and who said hit him second, I'd slot him 8 or 9.

i did.  and I stand by it.

Offline Slateman

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #357: October 17, 2012, 12:00:09 PM »
2011, obviously.  Just look at his stats before and after.

I don't even want that.  He SUCKED at the plate prior to this year and we want to add him and hit him second? 

NO THANKS

2011 he hit .305/.339/.470 18 homers
2009: .274/.336/.416 13 homers

High contact rate. Strikeout rate in the 10-13% area. The seasons he does well he reduced his FB% and increased his LD% and GB%. He's pretty much the definition of a two hole hitter. Great contact, some speed, low strike out rates.

And for those of you complaining about being busted for PEDs, does that mean we shouldn't keep Morse? He tested positive too IIRC.

Offline Kevrock

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #358: October 17, 2012, 12:01:52 PM »
Bad comp.

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #359: October 17, 2012, 12:06:01 PM »
2011 he hit .305/.339/.470 18 homers
2009: .274/.336/.416 13 homers

High contact rate. Strikeout rate in the 10-13% area. The seasons he does well he reduced his FB% and increased his LD% and GB%. He's pretty much the definition of a two hole hitter. Great contact, some speed, low strike out rates.

And for those of you complaining about being busted for PEDs, does that mean we shouldn't keep Morse? He tested positive too IIRC.

Good post.  Melky has always been ok.  He has had some good years before last year and for the price he could be had at this offseason he is worth it.  It would be a signing with quite a bit of upside without any long-term commitment.

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #360: October 17, 2012, 12:10:00 PM »
2011 he hit .305/.339/.470 18 homers
2009: .274/.336/.416 13 homers

High contact rate. Strikeout rate in the 10-13% area. The seasons he does well he reduced his FB% and increased his LD% and GB%. He's pretty much the definition of a two hole hitter. Great contact, some speed, low strike out rates.

And for those of you complaining about being busted for PEDs, does that mean we shouldn't keep Morse? He tested positive too IIRC.

Morse tested positive in the minors and he's proven he doesn't need PED's to hit well.

Cabrera tested positive in the majors when he was having his career year.

Comparisons aren't even close.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #361: October 17, 2012, 12:11:08 PM »
He didn't test positive in 2011 and he was solid then.

Offline Slateman

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #362: October 17, 2012, 12:14:10 PM »
Morse tested positive in the minors and he's proven he doesn't need PED's to hit well.

Cabrera tested positive in the majors when he was having his career year.

Comparisons aren't even close.

Morse just hasn't gotten caught. Melky got caught this year, yet has posted good numbers before. Braun got caught after a career year and has duplicated his performance after being supposedly clean.

Melky also hit well in 2006 and 2007.

Do I think he can hit as well he did this year? No. Do I think he can duplicate his .280-.300 average? Yes.

He has very similar numbers to Martin Prado. I think we could get that kind of performance out of Melky.

He didn't test positive in 2011 and he was solid then.

And in 2009, 2007, 2006

Offline BigMeech

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #363: October 17, 2012, 12:27:10 PM »
I really don't see the harm of giving him a short term, cheap deal.  Low risk, high reward.

Not to mention he doesn't strike out much, which would be a WELCOME addition in this lineup.

Offline The Chief

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #364: October 17, 2012, 12:32:07 PM »
Morse just hasn't gotten caught. Melky got caught this year, yet has posted good numbers before. Braun got caught after a career year and has duplicated his performance after being supposedly clean.

So because Morse got caught once years ago, you assume he's still juicing and just hasn't been caught again, but then you turn right around and act as if Melky ONLY juiced the year he was caught?

Or is it that you just assume all MLB players are juicing all the time?

Offline Slateman

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #365: October 17, 2012, 12:37:08 PM »
So because Morse got caught once years ago, you assume he's still juicing and just hasn't been caught again, but then you turn right around and act as if Melky ONLY juiced the year he was caught?

Or is it that you just assume all MLB players are juicing all the time?
I assume the majority of players are using PEDs and just aren't getting caught.

Offline spidernat

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #366: October 17, 2012, 12:44:45 PM »
I think the conspiracy to cover up his usage is more damning.

What's this about blue?


Offline spidernat

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #367: October 17, 2012, 12:48:21 PM »
I assume the majority of players are using PEDs and just aren't getting caught.

Most definitely this.

Offline The Chief

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #368: October 17, 2012, 12:50:44 PM »
I assume the majority of players are using PEDs and just aren't getting caught.

Pretty cynical view, but I wouldn't go as far as to say I think you're wrong.  That said, it doesn't seem like you and Minty really have anything to talk about if that's the case, since your argument appears to be based on different premises.

Offline Slateman

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #369: October 17, 2012, 12:53:24 PM »
Pretty cynical view, but I wouldn't go as far as to say I think you're wrong.  That said. it doesn't seem like you and Minty really have anything to talk about if that's the case, since your argument appears to be based on different premises.

I have two arguements:

1. Melky Cabrera can be an effective hitter even when he doesn't pop on a PED test.
2. I don't care if Cabrera is taking PEDs so long as he can pass the test.


Cabrera has shown in the past he can be an above average to good hitter. His low strikeouts and high contact rate would be a welcome addition to the lineup, particularly in the number 2 hole. And if he fails the drug test, then Bryce moves back to the two hole and Tyler Moore gets to play LF. Win-win for the Nationals.

Offline Kevrock

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #370: October 17, 2012, 12:57:18 PM »

Offline The Chief

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #371: October 17, 2012, 12:57:50 PM »
Right, both of your arguments assume that Cabrera is/was/will be on PEDs, whereas Minty's seems to be something along the lines of Cabrera having a wonder year based only on more recent PED usage, and that he'll quit using PEDs now that he's been caught, thus bringing him back to earth.

Offline Slateman

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #372: October 17, 2012, 01:04:31 PM »
Right, both of your arguments assume that Cabrera is/was/will be on PEDs, whereas Minty's seems to be something along the lines of Cabrera having a wonder year based only on more recent PED usage, and that he'll quit using PEDs now that he's been caught, thus bringing him back to earth.

This leads to another discussion about whether or not PEDs really make you a better hitter.

I guess I do wonder when Cabrera did start using PEDs. Hmmmmm ....

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #373: October 17, 2012, 01:53:46 PM »
What's this about blue?

Did you not see where the report came out a month or so before Melky was actually announced as having been busted?  The Giants wrote a letter to the Chronicle demanding the journalist write an apology for reporting a falsehood and then the official report came out three weeks later.  It was disgusting how they made that reporter apologize and then the Giants didn't extend the same courtesy. 

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #374: October 17, 2012, 01:56:50 PM »
Right, both of your arguments assume that Cabrera is/was/will be on PEDs, whereas Minty's seems to be something along the lines of Cabrera having a wonder year based only on more recent PED usage, and that he'll quit using PEDs now that he's been caught, thus bringing him back to earth.

Yup.