Author Topic: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread  (Read 72683 times)

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Offline lastobjective

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2525: December 03, 2012, 08:37:52 AM »
Trade Espi and Morse? NO!

Spend the money. Keep the players. Even though I hate strikeouts, and Espinosa's hitting reminds me of Don Lock (yes...look him up...and I suspect that Lock was more valuable), consider: if the Nats trade Espinosa and Lombo, Desmond, or Zimmerman get hurt, then who plays infield?

The Nats won games in 2012 both because they had no injuries to starting pitchers and because they could fill in for injured position players. Imagine that they've traded Espinosa and Desmond gets hurt. Would the replacement be next year's equivalent of Alex Cora?
Got to agree. I'd really like to avoid hiring another Cesar Izturis to cover our injuries. Just deal with what we have in-house.

And Espinosa makes a GREAT SS, so if Desi does get hurt again I won't lament the move. And Lombo does well at second. If we lost one or, heaven forbid, both in a trade our defense and depth would be significantly worse.

Offline houston-nat

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2526: December 03, 2012, 08:48:07 AM »
James Loney doesn't fill a lineup hole; he creates one.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2527: December 03, 2012, 08:51:57 AM »
Pass on this Rays nonsense.  Espinosa almost equalled Shields by himself in terms of WAR last season - 3.8 to 4.3.  And Espinosa has a ton of room for growth and is a lot cheaper.  And then to throw in Morse, who would be their second or third best hitter plus another prospect? 

I'd pass. 

Online blue911

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2528: December 03, 2012, 08:52:26 AM »


Never too early to start misspelling names.

Offline TheCerebral1

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2529: December 03, 2012, 09:01:12 AM »
Morse is fine being dealt but Espinosa in a deal too would be a joke.  He's way too important to the franchise right now.  Regardless if the team has Lombardozzi or not.

Offline WhiteWhale

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2530: December 03, 2012, 09:02:56 AM »
Looks to me like Rizzo is looking at more than just Sheilds...and Tampa's not biting. This isn't going to happen.

from MLBTR:

7:33am: There is currently no traction in trade discussions between the two sides, tweets Olney.

7:24am: Olney's colleague, Jayson Stark, reports that a source familiar with the talks says a trade sending Espinosa and Morse to Tampa Bay is unlikely despite the logical fit (Twitter link).

6:41am: ESPN's Buster Olney tweets that Rizzo is aiming high in his talks with the Rays about their pitchers.


Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#dlI2S0xC5QjRC0YI.99

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2531: December 03, 2012, 09:09:35 AM »
Do you want to keep this thread open for the Winter meetings or use the separate, dedicated thread PC started?

Offline Hondo

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2532: December 03, 2012, 09:14:23 AM »
If you are reading about it, Rizzo isnt doing it.

6:41am: ESPN's Buster Olney tweets that Rizzo is aiming high in his talks with the Rays about their pitchers.

I have a feeling that Rizzo is going after David Price.  Olney just wrote an article on his blog about Price being traded in the next 13 months.  The deal would have to start with Espy/Morse/Rendon and grow from there.

We are not going to trade Espy and Morse for Shields.  Why not just sign Dempster for the same amount that Shields is due?  It doesn't make sense.

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2533: December 03, 2012, 09:16:41 AM »
Because dempster is significantly worse than shields

Offline WhiteWhale

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2534: December 03, 2012, 09:19:18 AM »
Price, Stras, Gio, JZ, Det.

That is sick. I don't know that Rizzo wants 3 LH in the rotation, but that is just sick.

Offline NationalHeat

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2535: December 03, 2012, 09:20:01 AM »
I'd hate to trade Espi :az: but Shields would be a great addition.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2536: December 03, 2012, 09:20:44 AM »
Price, Stras, Gio, JZ, Det.

That is sick. I don't know that Rizzo wants 3 LH in the rotation, but that is just sick.

when did we turn into yankee fans?

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2537: December 03, 2012, 09:21:39 AM »
Trade for Felix Hernandez!!!

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2538: December 03, 2012, 09:23:14 AM »
Because dempster is significantly worse than shields

But not enough to warrant sending them so much extra.  Dempster+Espinosa+Morse is worth a lot more than just Shields by himself.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2539: December 03, 2012, 09:23:16 AM »
Gonna let the Rays pitching speculation continue here, but anything else about the winter meetings and rumors should go in the Winter Meetings Gameday thread.
 
Link to day 1 below.
http://www.wnff.net/index.php?topic=28218.0

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2540: December 03, 2012, 09:24:17 AM »
Trade for Hernandez and price!  Detwiler isn't good enough!

Offline Hondo

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2541: December 03, 2012, 09:26:46 AM »
I'm not sure 2 wins over the last 3 seasons is "significantly worse than shields".

Offline WhiteWhale

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2542: December 03, 2012, 09:45:29 AM »
when did we turn into yankee fans?

I was responding to what Hondo said.

I don't think this is happening, Rays would not trade him

my only point was that it would be a mind blowing rotation.

This was fun though, defending a quick small post on a forum because I broke the fan base unwritten ettiquite to not expect/say/think/or joke about anything over the top.


Offline aspenbubba

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2543: December 03, 2012, 01:13:16 PM »
Every one is talking Morse and Espy for Shields or what ever Rizzo can extract from Tampa. I an thinking Morse and Lombo as the more likely choice.

Offline cmdterps44

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2544: December 03, 2012, 01:21:16 PM »
Every one is talking Morse and Espy for Shields or what ever Rizzo can extract from Tampa. I an thinking Morse and Lombo as the more likely choice.

And why's that?

Offline Rasta

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2545: December 03, 2012, 01:28:37 PM »
The more I think about it I wonder how Morse fits what Tampa needs?  They don't want expensive contracts.  Morse has one year left on his deal and if he has a big year will get a significant raise.  With their budget, Tampa probably wouldn't sign Morse long term so they would be left with Morse for one year and Espinosa. 

I just don't see them trading Shields for that return.  If Morse were signed to a reasonable contract then I could see it.  Maybe Espi, Moore & something else? 

Offline aspenbubba

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2546: December 03, 2012, 01:47:10 PM »
And why's that?

Because we believe in Rizzos' magic

Online blue911

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2547: December 03, 2012, 01:49:21 PM »
The more I think about it I wonder how Morse fits what Tampa needs?  They don't want expensive contracts.  Morse has one year left on his deal and if he has a big year will get a significant raise.  With their budget, Tampa probably wouldn't sign Morse long term so they would be left with Morse for one year and Espinosa. 

I just don't see them trading Shields for that return.  If Morse were signed to a reasonable contract then I could see it.  Maybe Espi, Moore & something else?

Good post.

Morse only fits if they are "in it to win it", which trading a top of the line pitcher negates

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2548: December 03, 2012, 02:44:12 PM »
The more I think about it I wonder how Morse fits what Tampa needs?  They don't want expensive contracts.  Morse has one year left on his deal and if he has a big year will get a significant raise.  With their budget, Tampa probably wouldn't sign Morse long term so they would be left with Morse for one year and Espinosa. 

I just don't see them trading Shields for that return.  If Morse were signed to a reasonable contract then I could see it.  Maybe Espi, Moore & something else?

Morse fits a need for a productive bat to play DH or 1st.  For the past few contending years, they have filled in those positions on a year to year basis (2011, 2102).  He'll be making less than they were paying Pena last year.  They had $12MM+ in Scott and Pena last year, so Loney and Morse saves money.  They have an abundance of cheap young starters (Price, Hellickson, Moore, Niemann, Davis, Cobb, Archer, Torres), which is why most writers looking at that roster figure that Shields (or possibly Price) is available.  Doesn't mean they have to do the deal, but if they do want to move Archer or Cobb to the rotation, they likely can do the deal, save salary, and get a production out of it.

It's likely not happening, but Espinosa would be superior to most prospects they could receive.  They may prefer multiple prospects and roster help for any deal for Shields, but that is more of an issue than them not wanting a longer term MI and a short term cheap plug in for 1st / DH.

Offline cmdterps44

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2549: December 03, 2012, 02:45:40 PM »
Because we believe in Rizzos' magic
Ah, yeah. I just didn't know what your reasoning was behind that. The Rays probably wouldn't except that trade unfortunately.