Author Topic: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread  (Read 105028 times)

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Offline chemist

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2450: December 02, 2012, 04:31:38 PM »
I agree Tyler, I'm just hoping they give Danny the same chance they gave Ian. I guess having Rendon on the fringe might change things a bit though.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2451: December 02, 2012, 04:55:07 PM »
I don't think the Cardinals have a starting SS with Furcal out (unless they are sold on Koczma).  They have a bunch of younger pitchers with more years of team control than Shields.  The Rays themselves have other pitchers I'd target over Shields if we're trading as much as Morse and Espinosa. 

It just strikes me as selling low trading him for 2 years of even a very good (but not great) pitcher.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2452: December 02, 2012, 06:27:22 PM »
Desmond got chances on last place teams, there's no room for experimentation now. Trade Danny.

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2453: December 02, 2012, 06:32:14 PM »
Yeah, Danny hurt the team way too much last year.  Would've won the division if it weren't for him.  Trade him and play Lombo.  .325-OBP slap hitters are where it's at.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2454: December 02, 2012, 06:37:18 PM »
Quote
Desmond got chances on last place teams, there's no room for experimentation now. Trade Danny.

"Experimentation"? Danny had a 3.8 WAR last year and Lombardozzi had a 0.8 WAR. Danny is an above-average second baseman.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2455: December 02, 2012, 06:44:48 PM »
What would packaging Morse and Danny bring back?  Something good, I would bet.  Wade Davis and Jake McGee?  Lance Lynn plus something?  Something from Oakland?

Offline houston-nat

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2456: December 02, 2012, 06:58:41 PM »
"Experimentation"? Danny had a 3.8 WAR last year and Lombardozzi had a 0.8 WAR. Danny is an above-average second baseman.
Danny also played a lot more than Lombo.

I still agree that we're best keeping Danny right now.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2457: December 02, 2012, 07:03:52 PM »
As long as we're confident that Rendon can stay healthy we're better off trading the guy who gets us the most in return.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2458: December 02, 2012, 07:07:05 PM »
Desmond got chances on last place teams, there's no room for experimentation now. Trade Danny.

His "bad" season was 2.4 wins better than Desmond's very best season coming into 2012.

In fact, in 2009-2011, Desmond earned 3.1 wins... or 0.7 wins less than Espinosa's 2012, alone.

Offline Rasta

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2459: December 02, 2012, 07:15:02 PM »
Joel Sherman ‏@Joelsherman1
#Nationals in on Greinke, if fail there watch them on #Rays Shields using bats like Espinosa and Morse/Moore, Also some interest in Anibal

I think Rizzo is hellbent on adding another top starter.  Not just a filler like Jackson.  I don't think we'll see a Lohse/Dempster type.  I think Sanchez is on the low end in terms of quality Rizzo wants.  It's a Greinke/Shields/Sanchez type deal.  Should be an interesting few weeks. 

Offline cmdterps44

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2460: December 02, 2012, 07:17:54 PM »
Oh really! I'd hope that we're looking at those three. I mean, it would be stupid to avoid inquiring about them.

Also, I feel like this is an opportunity we shouldn't miss. We have the chance of having one of the best rotations in awhile and we're only one acquisition away from that. Adding a Greinke or a Shields or a Sanchez at that would be unreal.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2461: December 02, 2012, 07:24:37 PM »
Strasburg
Gonzalez
Zimmermann
Grienke
Detwiler


Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2462: December 02, 2012, 07:25:16 PM »
hell yes.  Shields would be awesome.


Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2463: December 02, 2012, 07:26:08 PM »
What would packaging Morse and Danny bring back?  Something good, I would bet.  Wade Davis and Jake McGee?  Lance Lynn plus something?  Something from Oakland?

Brett Anderson maybe?

Offline Rasta

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2464: December 02, 2012, 07:39:45 PM »
The interesting part with Greinke is that he met with the Nats brass and supposedly the ownership group when he rejected the trade a couple of years ago.  John Heyman made it clear in his interview with Greinke this summer that he was impressed with the Nats. 

If winning and comfort level are truly that important to him, I think the Nats have a chance if the money is in the same neighborhood.  If I were Rizzo, I would be hammering home that the Dodgers are just throwing money around and not building a team.  I'd also make sure he knew how the Dodgers are a potential tinderbox if things don't go well.

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2465: December 02, 2012, 08:21:53 PM »
[Adam Kilgore‏@AdamKilgoreWP

 One thing overheard at the meetings: The Nats had Denard Span rated above Michael Bourn and B.J. Upton, not even considering contracts.
[/quote]

Offline Rasta

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2466: December 02, 2012, 08:30:01 PM »
From Dave Sheinin's article with Greinke in 2011....

Quote
Greinke, however, insisted the decision to reject the Nationals was his own — and was not about the money, but rather his desire, at age 27 and after seven years of losing in Kansas City, to go to a team with a chance to win right now.

“It wouldn’t have gotten as far as it did [with the Nationals] if it wasn’t appealing,” Greinke said. “The one thing I couldn’t get over was the fact that, here I was trying to get out of Kansas City because the team wasn’t good. Not saying [the Nationals] don’t have a chance, but I was trying to get to a team that was looking really good at the moment. And I believe [the Nationals] will be good eventually.”

Much of what Greinke came to know about the Nationals and their ambitions he learned in early December during a clandestine meeting with high-ranking team officials in Orlando during baseball’s winter meetings.

“What got us talking seriously was the fact their owner wants to win really, really bad,” Greinke said, referring to Nationals managing principal owner Theodore Lerner, with whom Greinke met in person. “They convinced me they were really trying, and I believe them. My whole family liked the possibility of going there. I respect everything about the Nationals. And I’m not a guy who goes around saying that about every team.”

Quote
“Maybe it works out better that the deal [with Washington] didn’t go through,” Greinke said. “In two years I might be a free agent, and then they get to keep the players [who would have been] in the trade. And some of those guys could end up being key players for them.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/mlb/desire-to-win-now-kept-greinke-from-joining-nationals/2011/03/22/ABA2NPFB_story.html

Offline Jordanz Meatballz

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2467: December 02, 2012, 08:31:52 PM »
I woulda hate to see Espinosa go for pitching help.

Win in 2013, sign the free agent.

Offline Mr Clean

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2468: December 02, 2012, 08:34:02 PM »
New Twitter movement afoot  #KeepTheBeastIn2013

Suzuki just RTed.

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2469: December 02, 2012, 08:39:08 PM »
I woulda hate to see Espinosa go for pitching help.

Win in 2013, sign the free agent.

what free agent?

Offline Jordanz Meatballz

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2470: December 02, 2012, 08:48:14 PM »
what free agent?

Anyone decent, we're talking about the fifth starter, here.

How can you trade your potential star second baseman to make that improvement? It'd make every pitcher "worse" from worse defensive efficiency as well.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2471: December 02, 2012, 09:12:32 PM »
JCA - you can't have performance based clauses in contract. Games,  at bats, starts are fine but BA, HR & Wins are not.
I thought that was the case. 

Offline Mr Clean

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2472: December 02, 2012, 09:14:44 PM »
Ladson tweets the Nats might pursue Shields, offering Morse.

Will Morse alone get Shields?

Offline Vega

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2473: December 02, 2012, 09:16:57 PM »
Ladson tweets the Nats might pursue Shields, offering Morse.

Will Morse alone get Shields?
HAHAHAHA no. Add in a middle infielder and something else.

Offline cmdterps44

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Re: 2012/13 Offseason Discussion Thread
« Reply #2474: December 02, 2012, 09:20:40 PM »
Yea it has to be Shields and something else at least. The luxury of depth. It sure is nice.