Author Topic: Strasburg and the 2012 NLDS  (Read 6727 times)

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Online MorseTheHorse

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Strasburg and the 2012 NLDS
« Topic Start: October 10, 2012, 05:59:59 PM »
I've never made a thread before on WNFF.  But this is needed.  Not getting Strasburg on the playoff rotation was a HUGE mistake.  Rizzo has got us a damn good team I'll give him that.  Any reasonable analysis says there is a really good chance we will make the playoffs a bunch over the next couple years, and maybe even win a World Series or two or three. 

But Rizzo has flucked up BIG TIME with Strasburg this year.  I don't want to hear any excuses.  When Rizza have a talent like Strasburg he has to get him to the playoffs.  I'm just an average Joe like the rest of you and I can come up with 3 or 4 different ways the Nats could have done it this year.  Rizzo gets paid a hell of a lot of money to assemble the BEST team possible.  A team without Strasburg was a disgrace to the fans, not to mention the LaRoches, Tracys and DeRosas who  might not see some of the projected glory years down the road. 

No, the series isn't over.  In fact Detwiler has a better then decent chance tomorrow, and Gio has already beat Wainright.  I hope this post gets mocked mercilessly for years after we pull out this series and then go on to win our first WS.  But right now, we are down 2-1 and I blame one person and one person only.  MIKE RIZZO.  Thanks for nothing Mike!!!

Offline GMUNat

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Re: The Strasburg Mistake
« Reply #1: October 10, 2012, 06:00:25 PM »
Oh jeez, not this crap again

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: The Strasburg Mistake
« Reply #2: October 10, 2012, 06:08:37 PM »
Nah, this is a fair topic that deserves its own thread, and MtH isn't just ranting.  He's put down a good opening post. 

Let's face it, this is going to be a huge topic for a number of years.  I can see Welch IV in 2092 talking about the one that got away 80 yeara ago.  Much of the baseball world ridicules the decision.  I don't disagree with the decision to limit his innings and don't think they win the division without pitching him early in the year (so the Medlen plan was not viable).  Maybe there was a way to pitch him shorter starts or to skip a start mid-year once the playoffs were likely, but I think once we hit September there was not much else to do. 

I can't blame him for JZ maybe hitting a wall and E-Jax showing why he's never been thought of as a money pitcher.  The folks like Dave Cameron might have been right when they said, if you do plan on shutting down Strasburg, go get a Greike or Dempster so you have more righties and more depth for the playoffs.  I'd love it if Det had been available as a middle guy in the playoffs.  Maybe we win tomorrow and Friday, but it is a legit topic.

Offline comish4lif

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Re: The Strasburg Mistake
« Reply #3: October 10, 2012, 06:14:12 PM »
And the Nats scored 0 runs today. How is Strasburg relevant?

Online MorseTheHorse

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Re: The Strasburg Mistake
« Reply #4: October 10, 2012, 06:15:10 PM »
Nah, this is a fair topic that deserves its own thread, and MtH isn't just ranting.  He's put down a good opening post. 

Thanks JCA.  I'll be cheering hard tomorrow, just like I did today.  But win lose or draw(I dunno??) this is a topic that should be discussed I think, and I appreciate you welcoming the discussion. 

Offline Dave B

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Re: The Strasburg Mistake
« Reply #5: October 10, 2012, 06:15:25 PM »
And the Nats scored 0 runs today. How is Strasburg relevant?

his offense might help.

Offline lastobjective

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Re: The Strasburg Mistake
« Reply #6: October 10, 2012, 06:17:32 PM »
Ok, it's a legit topic, I see your point. However I just have a few questions that I'd like answered. There are no "right" answers, I just want peoples' opinions:

1) How was Rizzo supposed to know we'd definitely be in the playoffs in January? It was likely but NOT a lock.
2) How would have Rizzo kept Strasburg "fresh" for the playoffs? Would he have started him late enough so that he could pitch all the way into the WS? That would be what, six weeks out? EDIT: This is assuming you can't just put him in the pen, since I heard that starting pitchers who have never done relief don't do well converting later.
3) What if we didn't make the playoffs/a high seed because Strasburg didn't pitch until later? Wouldn't we have topics proclaiming we should have used him from the beginning so that we could have gotten INTO the playoffs?

I am not saying that Rizzo did not take some missteps, he did, but I am wondering what he could have done in hindsight. And remember, this is HINDSIGHT- not many teams have "shut down" their players like with consequences like this. I'm wondering is what can we learn from this?

Please note: I'm still a baseball "newbie", and I'm asking these questions because I don't have adequate answers myself  :-[

Offline GMUNat

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Re: The Strasburg Mistake
« Reply #7: October 10, 2012, 06:19:06 PM »
I made this post like a month ago and its going to prophetic:

If the Nats are down 2-1 entering game 4, and Detwiler is pitching down 3-0 in the 4th inning, the cameras will definitely pan on Strasburg after every single pitch. You don't want that potential embarrassment if you are the Nats.

Just wait, if we are down early, the camera is going to love Strasburg tomorrow.

Online MorseTheHorse

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Re: The Strasburg Mistake
« Reply #8: October 10, 2012, 06:19:06 PM »
And the Nats scored 0 runs today. How is Strasburg relevant?

If it were a 2-0 or 3-0 type game I feel like some of our innings would have ended with a run or two on the board.  You have a different approach as a hitter at the plate when the team is down by huge margins like we were today. 

And moreover good pitching/defense feeds good offense.  THe players aren't robots, I really believe momentum is a real thing.  With Stras on the mound dominating today our offense would have performed better.  That's my honest opinion. 

All that said, you are right the offense did not do well today.  And, for that matter, Jackson didn't do horribly.  After giving up 4 early runs he really put in a commendable effort in the 3rd, 4th and 5th.  But I just feel like the whole game is different if we aren't down 4-0 in the second. 

Offline comish4lif

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Re: The Strasburg Mistake
« Reply #9: October 10, 2012, 06:22:16 PM »
Maybe if the Barves had started the season wi Medlen in the rotation, and we had started Strasburg in the pen, the fortunes would be reversed...

Where are the Barves now with a fresh Medlen?

Offline GMUNat

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Re: The Strasburg Mistake
« Reply #10: October 10, 2012, 06:23:03 PM »
Maybe if the Barves had started the season wi Medlen in the rotation, and we had started Strasburg in the pen, the fortunes would be reversed...

Where are the Barves now with a fresh Medlen?

The same place we are going to join tomorrow

Offline imref

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Re: The Strasburg Mistake
« Reply #11: October 10, 2012, 06:24:39 PM »
we can round and round on this topic till the cows come home.  Davey and Rizzo both agreed that Strasburg was tiring out at the end of the year.  And if we had played the Kris Medlen game of delaying his start, there's absolutely no guarantee we would have won the division or made the playoffs (and everyone would be complaining that we should have started him on opening day).

No matter what we do the decision isn't going to change.  I trust Davey and Rizzo because they have been right far more then they have been wrong. 

Offline Slateman

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Re: The Strasburg Mistake
« Reply #12: October 10, 2012, 06:25:06 PM »
I fail to see how pitching Strasburg would have gotten more runs

Offline comish4lif

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Re: The Strasburg Mistake
« Reply #13: October 10, 2012, 06:27:08 PM »
If it were a 2-0 or 3-0 type game I feel like some of our innings would have ended with a run or two on the board.  You have a different approach as a hitter at the plate when the team is down by huge margins like we were today. 

And moreover good pitching/defense feeds good offense.  THe players aren't robots, I really believe momentum is a real thing.  With Stras on the mound dominating today our offense would have performed better.  That's my honest opinion. 

All that said, you are right the offense did not do well today.  And, for that matter, Jackson didn't do horribly.  After giving up 4 early runs he really put in a commendable effort in the 3rd, 4th and 5th.  But I just feel like the whole game is different if we aren't down 4-0 in the second. 
Choke job by LaRoche and Morse in the bottom of the 1st. After the introductions, the F.Robby first pitch, a flyover,
And the fans packing the park providing tons of energy.... It was a huge disappointment... To say the least. Completely unimpressed with the Nats effort today. Lots of players "gripping" it....

Offline wpa2629

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Re: The Strasburg Mistake
« Reply #14: October 10, 2012, 06:27:54 PM »
OMG

Make it stop

Offline Obed_Marsh

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Re: The Strasburg Mistake
« Reply #15: October 10, 2012, 06:28:40 PM »
freaking whiny nages. Get some Natitude. :w:

Offline capsmp

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Re: The Strasburg Mistake
« Reply #16: October 10, 2012, 06:28:54 PM »
He didn't exactly look dominant at the end of the year. What's done is done. A lot more factors are making them lose like this.

Online MorseTheHorse

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Re: The Strasburg Mistake
« Reply #17: October 10, 2012, 06:30:55 PM »
we can round and round on this topic till the cows come home. 

I mean I hear ya, in the national media this topic is discussed endlessly.  Tbh tho, I'm always surprised at how little attention this topic gets on this board. 

Offline wpa2629

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Re: The Strasburg Mistake
« Reply #18: October 10, 2012, 06:32:38 PM »
I mean I hear ya, in the national media this topic is discussed endlessly.  Tbh tho, I'm always surprised at how little attention this topic gets on this board. 

Seriously?

This topic has been pounded into the ground on this board -


Online MorseTheHorse

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Re: The Strasburg Mistake
« Reply #19: October 10, 2012, 06:35:16 PM »
Seriously?

This topic has been pounded into the ground on this board -



The Strasburg thread was dormant for about the last month I think.  The Bryce Harper compendium thread is much longer.  Yes, serious. 

Offline comish4lif

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Re: The Strasburg Mistake
« Reply #20: October 10, 2012, 06:39:38 PM »
I mean I hear ya, in the national media this topic is discussed endlessly.  Tbh tho, I'm always surprised at how little attention this topic gets on this board. 

I'm not, tbh, the one thing that all the national media have in common - besides flapping their gums - is that they have no skin in the game. It's easy for a bitter, old ass like Leo Mazzone to act indignant. He doesn't have to see Strasburg everyday, or deal with Dtras's parents if Steve blows out his arm again. Think anyone in the Cubs front office gets a Christmas card from Mark Prior.

A lot of the fans here have some skin in the game. Anyone who has posted here a few thousand times, has skin in the game. Many of us want the Mats to be good for as long as they can, and a big part of that is taking care of an asset like Stras. I get it, a post-season run is a rare thing, but I have more confidenece that Rizzo is doing the right thing for this franchise than some used up old fool like Leo Mazzone.

Offline Coladar

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Re: The Strasburg Mistake
« Reply #21: October 10, 2012, 06:42:26 PM »
I said this the second it sat in my seat and I was 4-0. And yes, for all my nagging about the 1pm start conflict I made it by 2:15 at least by getting insanely lucky.

But Strasburg is the freaking game changer, and don't go saying its a dead horse. Now it isn't. Because now we kicked their ass with Gio. Then the two pitchers who just aren't ready for this stage give a zillion runs early.

I was five feet from the dugout. I watched their faces all game. Not one had a bit of energy or enthusiasm. It was like they were forced to be there when they'd rather have been getting a head start on their off season. Not every guy, Desmond was throwing crap in the dugout in the eighth.

So down several runs early, or a tie game... it makes a difference. After the results of everyone not named Gio and their performance, I call crap on saying Strasburg is a dead and buried issue. The past 48 hours just resurrected it.

It's a dead issue when Zim'nn and Jackson don't have an ERA of 30 after two innings. They did, it isn't.

Offline wpa2629

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Re: The Strasburg Mistake
« Reply #22: October 10, 2012, 06:43:50 PM »
The Strasburg thread was dormant for about the last month I think.  The Bryce Harper compendium thread is much longer.  Yes, serious. 

Yeah, because he was shut down a month ago - What is there to talk about that hasn't been discussed 1000 times?

Starting him late was not an option - they were not going to jack with his routine, and the Nats were besieged with injuries the beginning of the year, completely dependent on pitching

Skipping starts wasn't an option because of how poorly Jordan reacted to that last year and how much they wanted Stras on a routine this year to build up his arm strength

Shutting him down and starting him up again was not an option because that puts a pitcher at even more risk.

Letting him continue to pitch was not going to happen because he was clearly laboring and fatigued in the 2nd half

The decided in January what they were going to do. The committed to it, just like they did with Jordan.

That's it, it's done.

Offline sportsfan882

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Re: The Strasburg Mistake
« Reply #23: October 10, 2012, 06:43:57 PM »
Desmond is the leader on the team, he's been great in every way. I just wish the other guys would take notice and get in form.

Offline Obed_Marsh

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Re: The Strasburg Mistake
« Reply #24: October 10, 2012, 06:44:36 PM »
Nut up nages. :w: