Author Topic: 2012 Regular Season Awards  (Read 4418 times)

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Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: 2012 Regular Season Awards
« Reply #150: November 14, 2012, 08:03:08 PM »
If Gio pitched better in the postseason, he might have had a shot (even though it's only a regular season award).  I think Dickey deserved it.

Offline wpa2629

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Re: 2012 Regular Season Awards
« Reply #151: November 14, 2012, 08:05:04 PM »
If Gio pitched better in the postseason, he might have had a shot (even though it's only a regular season award).  I think Dickey deserved it.

The votes had to all be in at the end of the season BEFORE the post season even started. The post season had no bearing on the award at all.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: 2012 Regular Season Awards
« Reply #152: November 14, 2012, 08:07:22 PM »
The votes had to all be in at the end of the season BEFORE the post season even started. The post season had no bearing on the award at all.

Oh - well never mind then.  :) 

Still want Gio to pitch better in the postseason.  And Dickey still deserved it.

Offline wpa2629

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Re: 2012 Regular Season Awards
« Reply #153: November 14, 2012, 08:09:39 PM »
Oh - well never mind then.  :) 

Still want Gio to pitch better in the postseason.  And Dickey still deserved it.

:thumbs:

Offline PC

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Re: 2012 Regular Season Awards
« Reply #154: November 14, 2012, 08:40:30 PM »
Zuckerman voted Dickey #1.  Tim Kurkjian had Gonzalez fifth!

It's very difficult for a lefty to have the season that Gonzalez had last season because most batters are right handed.  He's constantly in left-right matchups.

Offline Slateman

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Re: 2012 Regular Season Awards
« Reply #155: November 14, 2012, 08:53:42 PM »
Zuckerman voted Dickey #1.  Tim Kurkjian had Gonzalez fifth!

It's very difficult for a lefty to have the season that Gonzalez had last season because most batters are right handed.  He's constantly in left-right matchups.

What

Might wanna check the Cy Young winners the last 6 seasons. Lefties do pretty well




Offline PC

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Re: 2012 Regular Season Awards
« Reply #156: November 14, 2012, 09:01:59 PM »
What

Might wanna check the Cy Young winners the last 6 seasons. Lefties do pretty well

That still doesn't make it easy.  As a matter of mindfact, there should be an even greater bias in favor of left handed pitchers for the Cy Young because they face, overwhelmingly, right handed batters.


Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: 2012 Regular Season Awards
« Reply #157: November 14, 2012, 09:23:13 PM »
Maybe right handed batters should get extra credit in the MVP races too since they have to face more righties?

Offline houston-nat

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Re: 2012 Regular Season Awards
« Reply #158: November 14, 2012, 10:05:29 PM »
That still doesn't make it easy.  As a matter of mindfact, there should be an even greater bias in favor of left handed pitchers for the Cy Young because they face, overwhelmingly, right handed batters.

But there's a bias in favor of lefties in terms of who makes the major leagues to start with. About 15% of people are left-handed, which means that in the MLB there should be about 22 left-handed starting pitchers in any given season. The fact that there are many, many more is evidence that, if you are a LHP, you are more likely to crack the majors.

So why should LHPs get affirmative action on Cy Young Awards if it's easier for them to qualify in the first place?

Offline Slateman

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Re: 2012 Regular Season Awards
« Reply #159: November 14, 2012, 10:05:36 PM »
That still doesn't make it easy.  As a matter of mindfact, there should be an even greater bias in favor of left handed pitchers for the Cy Young because they face, overwhelmingly, right handed batters.



That usually works to their advantage.


Online Jordanz Meatballz

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Re: 2012 Regular Season Awards
« Reply #160: November 15, 2012, 12:18:46 AM »
Maybe right handed batters should get extra credit in the MVP races too since they have to face more righties?


I don't have a problem with this.  Most of the greatest hitters in history bat lefty.

Babe Ruth, Ted Williams, Lou Gehrig, Stan Musial, Ty Cobb, Barry Bonds, Shoeless Joe Jackson, George Sisler, Tony Gwynn, George Brett, Wade Boggs, Rod Carew, Ichiro Suzuki

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/440271-albert-pujols-and-the-20-greatest-right-handed-hitters-of-all-time

Check it out


Offline Slateman

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Re: 2012 Regular Season Awards
« Reply #161: November 15, 2012, 07:44:19 AM »
Ted Williams OPS'd over .900 against lefties

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: 2012 Regular Season Awards
« Reply #162: November 15, 2012, 08:55:22 AM »
yabut what did he ever win, other than a couple of wars?

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: 2012 Regular Season Awards
« Reply #163: November 15, 2012, 09:02:44 AM »
Good luck arguing that Babe Ruth was only Babe MFing Ruth because he was lefty. 

Are you saying those guys should have asteriks next to their career numbers because they are lefties?  Or they should have that counted against them in MVP votes and the like?

Offline Slateman

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Re: 2012 Regular Season Awards
« Reply #164: November 15, 2012, 10:23:15 AM »
yabut what did he ever win, other than a couple of wars?

Couple MVPs and an all expenses paid trip to Cooperstown

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: 2012 Regular Season Awards
« Reply #165: November 15, 2012, 11:11:23 AM »
Yes, and a triple crown in 1942. 

Did you know for the last half of his Korea tour he was John Glenn's wingman?

Offline houston-nat

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Re: 2012 Regular Season Awards
« Reply #166: November 15, 2012, 12:06:08 PM »
Did you know for the last half of his Korea tour he was John Glenn's wingman?

Man, they must have left a trail of satisfied Korean girls in their wake.

Offline tomterp

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Re: 2012 Regular Season Awards
« Reply #167: November 15, 2012, 12:10:53 PM »
I understand.    I simply think it's easier to pitch on a poor team.    There is no pressure.   I don't think Dickey would produce the same way under the pressure of a pennant race.    Mindfact?    :)

Why not test the hypothesis - what you're saying, is that pitchers on poor teams outperform pitchers on good teams because of less pressure.  Maybe start with the rest of the Mets' staff, they must have had GREAT years.   

 8)

Offline nobleisthyname

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Re: 2012 Regular Season Awards
« Reply #168: November 15, 2012, 12:56:27 PM »
Dickey was a good choice for the NL Cy Young (though Kershaw may have been more deserving). I would have given it to Verlander in the AL though. Price was good but Verlander and King Felix were both better this season. I don't believe in giving out awards for playing on better teams. That goes for the MVP as well.

Online mitlen

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Re: 2012 Regular Season Awards
« Reply #169: November 15, 2012, 03:11:14 PM »
Why not test the hypothesis - what you're saying, is that pitchers on poor teams outperform pitchers on good teams because of less pressure.  Maybe start with the rest of the Mets' staff, they must have had GREAT years.   

 8)

My comment referred to Dickey.     He never had to pitch in front of 45,000 people in early October with the NL East title on the line like Gio.    Dickey's a fine pitcher for what he had to face.   He may have been the 5th starter with the Nats this year  ....  and even next year with his Cy Young.     He was a good story in NYC.   I don't think he was the best pitcher in the NL.    While we're at it, Cabrera is the MVP in the AL :whip:.   My goodness, he was the triple crown champ on a WS team.    But the writers will give to an LA player with some WAR bullcrap.   :stir:

Online mitlen

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Re: 2012 Regular Season Awards
« Reply #170: November 15, 2012, 03:23:36 PM »
I don't believe in giving out awards for playing on better teams. That goes for the MVP as well.

I don't either but you can't discount the "(mind)fact" that maybe Gio was one of the main reasons the Nats were a better team.   Maybe Cabrera did the same thing with the Tigers.   I mean, all they added was Fielder.   :P

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: 2012 Regular Season Awards
« Reply #171: November 15, 2012, 04:10:59 PM »
You know, if it were steals in the triple crown instead of RBI, or if you disqualified anyone who was a below average fielder by all measures, there'd be a no argument for Cabrera.  Just a quirk of history.

Offline nobleisthyname

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Re: 2012 Regular Season Awards
« Reply #172: November 15, 2012, 05:20:01 PM »
I don't either but you can't discount the "(mind)fact" that maybe Gio was one of the main reasons the Nats were a better team.   Maybe Cabrera did the same thing with the Tigers.   I mean, all they added was Fielder.   :P

True but put Gonzalez on the Astros and the Astros still aren't a playoff team. And the Angels had a better record than the Tigers did. I suppose it's due to Cabrera that they got to play in the worst division in baseball  :stir:

Cabrera is a deserving MVP candidate (certainly more deserving than previous winners, I'm looking at you Morneau, Rollins, Verlander) Mike Trout is just more deserving.

Online mitlen

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Re: 2012 Regular Season Awards
« Reply #173: November 15, 2012, 05:30:50 PM »
You know, if it were steals in the triple crown instead of RBI, or if you disqualified anyone who was a below average fielder by all measures, there'd be a no argument for Cabrera.  Just a quirk of history.

If "ifs" and "buts" were candy and nuts, we'd all have a happy holiday.     :poke:

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: 2012 Regular Season Awards
« Reply #174: November 15, 2012, 05:36:21 PM »
I happened to buy some delicious roasted nuts and nut mixes at the farmer's market that I'm going to give to my sister in law next Thursday!