Author Topic: Cy Young Discussion on MLB Network  (Read 581 times)

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Offline bshep86

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Cy Young Discussion on MLB Network
« Topic Start: October 03, 2012, 12:48:58 AM »
So I'm watching MLB Network and the question was "Who do you think is going to win the Cy Young. Dickey or Kershaw?" Bill Ripkin basically chose option 3 and said Gio. He was quickly discredited and then they moved on passed the Gio discussion. Is it because I don't see them pitch much, or are Dickey and Kershaw the top two contenders? Or is this a case of appeasing the LA and NY markets. like we see from ESPN so much?


Offline NatsTheFats

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Re: Cy Young Discussion on MLB Network
« Reply #1: October 03, 2012, 01:04:53 AM »
I've seen Gio as the fourth best in some write ups.....kinda crazy

Offline NatsTheFats

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Re: Cy Young Discussion on MLB Network
« Reply #2: October 03, 2012, 01:05:49 AM »
I think Dickey wins it.  He has great record on a bad team. 

Offline CALSGR8

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Re: Cy Young Discussion on MLB Network
« Reply #3: October 03, 2012, 06:22:55 AM »
So I'm watching MLB Network and the question was "Who do you think is going to win the Cy Young. Dickey or Kershaw?" Bill Ripkin basically chose option 3 and said Gio. He was quickly discredited and then they moved on passed the Gio discussion. Is it because I don't see them pitch much, or are Dickey and Kershaw the top two contenders? Or is this a case of appeasing the LA and NY markets. like we see from ESPN so much?




The latter!

Online Slateman

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Re: Cy Young Discussion on MLB Network
« Reply #4: October 03, 2012, 07:22:13 AM »
I think Dickey wins it.  He has great record on a bad team. 

And a lot more innings

Online tomterp

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Re: Cy Young Discussion on MLB Network
« Reply #5: October 03, 2012, 07:48:34 AM »
BP has released its staff selections for various regular season awards.  For NL Cy Young:

Quote
Cy Young
 1.R.A. Dickey, Mets, 21, 89 (16)
2.Clayton Kershaw, Dodgers, 25, 86 (8)
3.Gio Gonzalez, Nationals, 17, 43 (4)
4.Stephen Strasburg, Nationals, 6, 12 (1)
5.Cliff Lee, Phillies, 4, 8
6.Craig Kimbrel, Braves, 3, 7
7.Johnny Cueto, Reds, 6, 6
8.Kris Medlen, Braves, 2, 2


http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=18300

Offline Ray D

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Re: Cy Young Discussion on MLB Network
« Reply #6: October 03, 2012, 09:11:30 AM »
Bill Ripkin basically chose option 3 and said Gio.

Well, so much for the theory that Ripkin hates the Nats.

Seriously I don't see much chance of Gio getting it, and if he did, it would be based almost entirely on win total, which is not a good way to select a Cy Young winner.

Offline OldChelsea

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Re: Cy Young Discussion on MLB Network
« Reply #7: October 03, 2012, 09:23:44 AM »
Usually once a consensus favourite emerges by the All-Star break or thereabouts, it's pretty difficult to dislodge that person from the award unless he really goes off a cliff in the second half - and Dickey was practically a runaway favourite at mid-season.

Offline expos1994

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Re: Cy Young Discussion on MLB Network
« Reply #8: October 03, 2012, 02:01:42 PM »
If Gio doesn't win it, it'll be a travesty.

First of all Kershaw has 13 wins... gimme a freaking break.

Gio is right up there in ERA, K's, Wins, WHIP, BAA... top 10 in all of them (He's first in Wins and Batting Avg. against)
He has only allowed 9 HRs compared to 24 and 16 from Dickey and Kershaw.

But the real kicker here... Washington won their division. Dickey and Kershaw didn't make the playoffs.
I hope the voters aren't that dumb.

I'm an Iowa fan and this reminds me of 2008. Shonn Greene was the best running back in the nation. But all the ESPN and media pundits talked about was Knowshon Moreno, Beanie Wells, Javon Ringer... It seemed like he was getting hosed. But he ended up winning the Doak Walker award when it came down to the actual voting. I'm hoping something like that happens with Gio. Where the voters actually look at the evidence and make the right call. Dickey's had a heck of a year, but these awards go to guys who played for winners when the stats are close. And in this case they are. Also, who wants to see a knuckleballer win the Cy Young... ZZzzzzzzzz.

Offline KingHarper

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Re: Cy Young Discussion on MLB Network
« Reply #9: October 03, 2012, 02:05:24 PM »
^ Wins are a pretty overrated stats. Felix won a couple years ago with 13 wins. Quality of player should matter, not the quality of the team they played on. As much as I love Gio, Dickey and Kershaw are the favorites.

Offline Ray D

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Re: Cy Young Discussion on MLB Network
« Reply #10: October 03, 2012, 02:11:53 PM »
But the real kicker here... Washington won their division. Dickey and Kershaw didn't make the playoffs.
It's not MVP, it's "best pitcher".  MVP is the only award where it is appropriate to consider team success.

Online wpa2629

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Re: Cy Young Discussion on MLB Network
« Reply #11: October 03, 2012, 02:24:34 PM »
It's not MVP, it's "best pitcher".  MVP is the only award where it is appropriate to consider team success.


Well, there's something to be said when you're pitching on a first place team in very meaningful games - and the other guys aren't

Offline expos1994

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Re: Cy Young Discussion on MLB Network
« Reply #12: October 03, 2012, 02:25:44 PM »
Well you might be surprised. More often than not, the award goes to a pitcher on a winning team. Unless it's Randy Johnson... that guy was way better than the competition in his prime. And it is kinda the MVP of pitching, it does get voted that way by some. The MVP is *almost always* the award for the best hitter.

RA Dickey is not way better than Gio Gonzalez. But the Nats are way better than the Mets. It'll be close.  Didn't Gio win against Dickey in their last head to head matchup?

Offline Baseball is Life

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Re: Cy Young Discussion on MLB Network
« Reply #13: October 03, 2012, 02:28:11 PM »
^ Wins are a pretty overrated stats.

 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

I know what you mean but that doesn't sound right. Wins, in a way, are the only stats that matter.

Offline Ray D

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Re: Cy Young Discussion on MLB Network
« Reply #14: October 03, 2012, 02:33:49 PM »
Well you might be surprised. More often than not, the award goes to a pitcher on a winning team.

I'm sure that's true and I suspect it's because the better teams tend to have better pitchers, that's what  makes them good.

Quote
Didn't Gio win against Dickey in their last head to head matchup?
And that probably had more to do with the Nats being superior to the Mets than Gio being better than Dickey.


Offline Hogie

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Re: Cy Young Discussion on MLB Network
« Reply #15: October 03, 2012, 02:54:18 PM »
As soon as you mention wins with regards to pitchers, your opinion instantly gets thrown out the window.

Offline The Chief

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Re: Cy Young Discussion on MLB Network
« Reply #16: October 03, 2012, 03:13:13 PM »
I don't even know how you give the Cy Young to a 37 year-old knuckleballer.  I mean yes, I know there's no reason you can't, but it just seems wrong.  I'm not saying Gio should get it, but Dickey is an over the hill washup who lucked into being really good at throwing a gimmick pitch.  I just don't feel like that embodies what a Cy Young recipient should be.

Offline BigMeech

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Re: Cy Young Discussion on MLB Network
« Reply #17: October 03, 2012, 03:16:28 PM »
RA shouldn't win the Cy Young just because he plays for the Mets.  Don't give that franchise ANY hope of ever mattering in the grand scheme of things.

Online Slateman

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Re: Cy Young Discussion on MLB Network
« Reply #18: October 03, 2012, 03:18:53 PM »
I don't even know how you give the Cy Young to a 37 year-old knuckleballer.  I mean yes, I know there's no reason you can't, but it just seems wrong.  I'm not saying Gio should get it, but Dickey is an over the hill washup who lucked into being really good at throwing a gimmick pitch.  I just don't feel like that embodies what a Cy Young recipient should be.

He threw that gimmick pitch and averaged 2 walks per 9 innings. That's unheard of before.

Offline Ray D

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Re: Cy Young Discussion on MLB Network
« Reply #19: October 03, 2012, 03:20:52 PM »
RA shouldn't win the Cy Young just because he plays for the Mets.  Don't give that franchise ANY hope of ever mattering in the grand scheme of things.


That argument does have merit.

Offline The Chief

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Re: Cy Young Discussion on MLB Network
« Reply #20: October 03, 2012, 03:25:41 PM »
He threw that gimmick pitch and averaged 2 walks per 9 innings. That's unheard of before.

Doesn't change my feelings on the matter.  Is there anyone saying they're excited to see Dickey grow and develop as a star pitcher over the next 5 years?  Of course not.  He's most likely a one-hit wonder and will be out of the league entirely in a few years.  It's not even that far-fetched that he could totally flame out NEXT year.

There's no denying he's had an amazing season, but on some level I think the Cy Young has to be about more than that.

Offline nobleisthyname

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Re: Cy Young Discussion on MLB Network
« Reply #21: October 03, 2012, 03:37:38 PM »
The Cy Young is supposed to go to the pitcher who had the best season THIS year, not the pitcher who's gonna be the best five years from now. I have no problem with Dickey winning it and I think he deserves it with Kershaw as a close second.


Online Slateman

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Re: Cy Young Discussion on MLB Network
« Reply #22: October 03, 2012, 03:38:30 PM »
Doesn't change my feelings on the matter.  Is there anyone saying they're excited to see Dickey grow and develop as a star pitcher over the next 5 years?  Of course not.  He's most likely a one-hit wonder and will be out of the league entirely in a few years.  It's not even that far-fetched that he could totally flame out NEXT year.

There's no denying he's had an amazing season, but on some level I think the Cy Young has to be about more than that.

He's taken a pitch that, by it's very nature, is almost impossible to control, and exhibited some of the best control in baseball. He's gone over 200 innings, won 20 games, and struck out the most batters in the NL. He's done it all with a torn abdominal muscle.

Cy Young goes to the best pitcher in the league that season. It has nothing to do with future growth or potential. It doesn't matter if he flames out next year or five years from now. He is the pitcher with the best overall performance for the 2012 MLB Season.

Offline The Chief

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Re: Cy Young Discussion on MLB Network
« Reply #23: October 03, 2012, 03:39:32 PM »
The Cy Young is supposed to go to the pitcher who had the best season THIS year, not the pitcher who's gonna be the best five years from now. I have no problem with Dickey winning it and I think he deserves it with Kershaw as a close second.

You not only misread my post, you missed the intent of it as well.  I don't really object if Dickey wins, but I think there are better fits.

edit - that goes for slateman too.

You guys can say whatever you want, but you're not going to affect my opinion on this one iota, so save yourself the effort.

Offline nobleisthyname

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Re: Cy Young Discussion on MLB Network
« Reply #24: October 03, 2012, 03:42:54 PM »
You not only misread my post, you missed the intent of it as well.  I don't really object if Dickey wins, but I think there are better fits.

edit - that goes for slateman too.

Why even bring up future season performances then if you agree that they're irrelevant to the award?

It's pretty simple really. The Cy Young goes to the pitcher with the best performance from that year. This year that is Dickey (or Kershaw).

EDIT:

In response to your edit: Fair enough. Out of curiosity though who is your choice for the Cy Young?