Author Topic: Nationals @ Braves, Game 2  (Read 18140 times)

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Offline imref

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 2
« Reply #425: September 15, 2012, 10:34:10 PM »
Meh, Kimbrell's blown saves, including 1 to us and 1 not too long ago against Philly and Tracey hit him tonight.

He's very good, but anyone can get beat.

tracy hit a curveball that was thrown badly, but when he went to his fastball nobody could hit him.  He's the good Henry 'all the time'

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 2
« Reply #426: September 15, 2012, 10:34:43 PM »
tracy hit a curveball that was thrown badly, but when he went to his fastball nobody could hit him.  He's the good Henry 'all the time'

Everybody is beatable

Even Achilles :)

Offline Slateman

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 2
« Reply #427: September 15, 2012, 10:40:57 PM »
I was 100% behind Davey getting thrown out there too. Once freaktard Hudson refused to ask for help (indefensible) as a manger you HAVE to make your stand

You cannot stand by and accept so blatantly a blown call at such a critical time, particularly when the umpire is an incompetent ego maniac. Hudson's refusal to do the one simple thing he should have immediately done to get the call right, is simply unacceptable.

Good for Davey for standing up for his guys.

And ... it got the Nationals what? What good does standing up for your guys do? Are they suddenly going to not respect him if he doesn't? If that's what it takes for a multiple world championship winning player/manager as well as a once Manager of the Year to get respect, then he never had it in the first place.

Of course not, but that blown call had an impact and that's unacceptable.

I can totally live with my team sucking and losing, I don't like it, but I can live with it.  Having the course of a baseball game negatively impacted by incompetent officiating is galling on every level.

It's the HUBRIS from the jackasses who are paid to GET THE CALL RIGHT yet simply refuse to, that I cannot abide by.

Nor should I

Uh ... the team sucked and lost on their own. They had a 4-0 lead at one point and lost 5-4. That one blown call did not make them do that. Jackson was the one who kept feeding Freeman fastballs over the plate when Detwiler neutralized him by jamming him. McCatty/Davey could not seem to correct his. Nor did anyone go out to calm Heyward down. Probably because they were too busy arguing with an umpire that was never going to reverse his call in the first place. Mattheus couldn't get an out. Oh and nobody could touch the Braves pitching staff after the second inning. And even those runs were gifts from the Braves and their sloth.

The ump did not lose us the game. The Nationals lost us the game.

Offline PC

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 2
« Reply #428: September 15, 2012, 10:52:28 PM »
Ump threw the home run ball? Nope. That was on Jackson. Sorry, but blown calls happen in sports. Davey got thrown out arguing over a call that won't be changed. Ever. McCatty came out too late to calm down Jackson. Davey wasn't there to manage the bullpen like he's supposedly good at when the game was on the line.

Fact is that, despite that blown call, that game was very winnable.

And you're wrong again.  Calls get changed.  THAT call WOULD have been changed if the Marietta GA umpire had asked if the homeplate umpire had seen his foot on the bag.  It was that obvious.  To say that calls don't changed is absurd.  A call got changed IN THIS GAME after an umpire conference (Desmond to 3rd base).  Calls like this have been overturned multiple times, recently.

If the call is made right, there's no "coming out late" to talk about.

And Davey should have gotten thrown out.  If you keep putting up with crap, you'll keep getting crap.  Davey should have been thrown out multiple times by this point in the season.  The Braves didn't have to overcome a blown call to win this game, the Nationals did and the idea that if you can't overcome umpires blown calls then you deserve to lose is offensive beyond words.

And if you want to look for a culprit, other than the Marietta GA umpire, who also couldn't see a check swing when the Braves were batting in addition to a foot on a bag, look at the offense.  Espinosa is 0 for 8 with EIGHT STRIKEOUTS in this series.  Zimmerman, the supposed leader of the team is also 0 for 8.  Desmond is 1 for 8.  The offense isn't blameless.

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 2
« Reply #429: September 15, 2012, 10:59:26 PM »
Seriously? Managers argue pitifully bad calls and get thrown out all the time. And they do this because MLB is so backasswards, that is the only recourse they have. There's no replay, there's no accountability, so they have to go out and raise a stink in the hope that the jackass they're yelling at gives enough of a crap the next time to get the call right.  It's been like that for 100 years.

LaRussa, Torre, Johnson, Cox, Leland, all of them have all argued calls and have all been thrown out of games. Pretty sure they all have rings. I'm 100% behind Davey getting thrown out in that instance. What Hudson did was unacceptable.

As for the rest of it, I really don't know what you're responding to. I watched the game, I don't need a repeated recap, and I have never once said the ump lost the game. I said very clearly in my first post that the outcome of the game was irrelevant. This is not a Nats problem, this is an MLB problem.

The ONLY thing that matters is getting the call right. It is completely unacceptable for a blown call to negatively impact a game, particularly when an umpire refuses to do the right thing. Hudson REFUSED to ask for help to get the call right. That is indefensible. 

Furthermore, MLB's dogged refusal to do everything in their power to ensure the integrity of the game by simply GETTING THE CALL RIGHT is galling.  Watching that ego maniac shake his head at Davey when he refused to ask for help, made me sick. Worst part is, Hudson will be right back out on the field tomorrow night. Galling

Offline PC

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 2
« Reply #430: September 15, 2012, 11:01:46 PM »
Worst part is, Hudson will be right back out on the field tomorrow night. Galling

Behind home plate, to be exact.

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 2
« Reply #431: September 15, 2012, 11:04:04 PM »
Behind home plate, to be exact.

Awesome, as soon as I pull this stake out of my skull I'll be ready to go ...

Offline Fan037

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 2
« Reply #432: September 15, 2012, 11:32:17 PM »
It's one thing to lose a game.  It's another to lose a game because an umpire gets a call totally wrong.  The throw beat the runner and LaRoche's foot was glued to the bag.  That blind-as-a-bat umpire could have asked for help from another umpire.  But, of course, he didn't.  Davey did what he should have done - thrown a fit and cursed up a storm. 

I keep thinking we're going to be facing these same Braves again in the playoffs.  If so, I hope we get some justifiable revenge.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 2
« Reply #433: September 15, 2012, 11:51:02 PM »
And you're wrong again.  Calls get changed.  THAT call WOULD have been changed if the Marietta GA umpire had asked if the homeplate umpire had seen his foot on the bag.  It was that obvious.  To say that calls don't changed is absurd.  A call got changed IN THIS GAME after an umpire conference (Desmond to 3rd base).  Calls like this have been overturned multiple times, recently.

If the call is made right, there's no "coming out late" to talk about.

And Davey should have gotten thrown out.  If you keep putting up with crap, you'll keep getting crap.  Davey should have been thrown out multiple times by this point in the season.  The Braves didn't have to overcome a blown call to win this game, the Nationals did and the idea that if you can't overcome umpires blown calls then you deserve to lose is offensive beyond words.

And if you want to look for a culprit, other than the Marietta GA umpire, who also couldn't see a check swing when the Braves were batting in addition to a foot on a bag, look at the offense.  Espinosa is 0 for 8 with EIGHT STRIKEOUTS in this series.  Zimmerman, the supposed leader of the team is also 0 for 8.  Desmond is 1 for 8.  The offense isn't blameless.

Lol, keep believing that the call changed everything. It didn't. Jackson remains calm and keeps on pitching the way he had the rest of the game, it wouldn't have been an issue.

When was the last time that an umpire made a call, the manager came out to argue, and the umpire changed the call? There was no way the home plate ump was going to overrule.

Offline PC

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 2
« Reply #434: September 16, 2012, 03:55:48 AM »
When was the last time that an umpire made a call, the manager came out to argue, and the umpire changed the call? There was no way the home plate ump was going to overrule.

July 7, 2012

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=22931311&topic_id=&c_id=mlb&tcid=vpp_copy_22931311&v=3

Offline RobDibblesGhost

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 2
« Reply #435: September 16, 2012, 09:44:35 AM »
I previously hadn't been a huge fan of increased replay, but some of these horrible calls around MLB this season  have really changed my mind.  The calls need to be correct and replay is probably the only way that will happen.  Until replay is incorporated, I think MLB should require umps to confer on a call at the request of a manager.  Maybe each manager should get one challenge per game.  That would, of course, require the umps  to put their egos aside, but it needs to be done.  I'm interested to see how Hudson is behind the plate tonight (and also if he admits he blew the call), and what Marty Foster at home saw at first and what his call would have been if he had been asked.


Offline Slateman

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 2
« Reply #437: September 16, 2012, 09:55:26 AM »
July 7, 2012

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=22931311&topic_id=&c_id=mlb&tcid=vpp_copy_22931311&v=3


Compare the way in which the managers approached the umpire. Big difference. Maybe if Davey Johnson had come out with a little respect instead of immediately getting in to a shouting match with the umpire, he might have been able to get him to get some help from another ump.

Still doesn't change the fact that the call didn't cost the National the game. Jackson serving up a fastball to the Braves best fastball AND home run hitter did. McCatty coming out a batter too late did. Mattheus being left in to walk 2 batters and hit another did. The Nationals inability to  hit the ball did.

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 2
« Reply #438: September 16, 2012, 10:07:30 AM »
Shocker, Slateman is picking apart Davey again. Should have kept Riggles.

Offline RobDibblesGhost

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 2
« Reply #439: September 16, 2012, 10:12:23 AM »
I'm not saying it was solely Marvin Hudson's blown call that cost the game, but that was the catalyst.  To see Jackson, LaRoche, and Davey as upset as they were meant that was a horrible call.  That changed the whole game right there - Jackson was obviously worked up and probably made a pitch he wouldn't have made otherwise.  Additionally, he'd likely have pitched Freeman differently with the bases empty (as it should have been) versus a runner on.  Who knows how the game would have ended if Hudson had put his ego aside and asked for help in getting the call right, but there's no arguing that it didn't affect emotions and change the outcome of that particular inning.

Offline welch

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 2
« Reply #440: September 16, 2012, 10:29:27 AM »
Some managers get thrown for a purpose. Davey has done this long enough to calculate what he does...he wanted to put some snap into the Nats....at least that's my hunch.

Need to win today, with Gio pitching. Need to hit, which was the chief problem after the second inning.

"It takes more than loyalty to be a fan of the Nats. It takes raw courage. Remember 2008!"

Offline OldChelsea

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 2
« Reply #441: September 16, 2012, 10:52:50 AM »
THIS DAY WITH THE '05 OVERACHIEVERS: Thursday 15th September 2005 saw the Nats complete a sweep of the Mets at Shea, 6-5 in 10 innings...record now 76-71...http://espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=250915121.

---

Disgusting...simply disgusting...right up there with Denkinger '85...and now that The Marietta, GA Umpire (this point cannot be emphasised too strongly) will be behind the plate tonight, Gio won't get three called strikes all evening. Won't be pleasant listening right after getting home from watching my poor Mystics getting slapped round by the New York Liberty at the Phone Booth this afternoon...oh well, at least the beer is good.

Offline Fan037

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 2
« Reply #442: September 16, 2012, 10:55:47 AM »
Obviously, the terrible call doesn't mean we shouldn't have hit more or that Jackson couldn't have pitched better.  But that call was WRONG.  Baseball should institute a method to get calls RIGHT - whether it be instant replay or asking another ump for his opinion.  In a playoff game with these same Braves, how would you feel if that call were allowed to stand?

Offline Slateman

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Re: Nationals @ Braves, Game 2
« Reply #443: September 16, 2012, 11:50:13 AM »
Shocker, Slateman is picking apart Davey again. Should have kept Riggles.

Actually, if you pay attention to my argument, I'm saying that Davey Johnson is a good manager and the Nats need him. So my complaint is that he wasn't at the game because he was more interested in getting tossed to "prove a point."