Author Topic: Paul Swydan Believes Braves Will Catch Nats [but who gives gives a rat's ...]  (Read 9539 times)

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Offline GSW

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Re: Paul Swydan Believes Braves Will Catch Nats
« Reply #150: August 12, 2012, 01:28:38 PM »
 Re: Paul Swydan Believes Braves Will Catch Nats


If Johnson keeps doing stupid sh*t like last night...(Mike had what 3 strikes in 20 pitches and not 1 person was getting ready to come in) ????

What was that all about !!!!! :doh: :panic: :panic: :asplode:

Online blue911

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Re: Paul Swydan Believes Braves Will Catch Nats
« Reply #151: August 12, 2012, 01:30:57 PM »
Re: Paul Swydan Believes Braves Will Catch Nats


If Johnson keeps doing stupid sh*t like last night...(Mike had what 3 strikes in 20 pitches and not 1 person was getting ready to come in) ????

What was that all about !!!!! :doh: :panic: :panic: :asplode:

Winning. You should try to find crap to nag about that doesn't end up working. Else you look like a boob.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Paul Swydan Believes Braves Will Catch Nats
« Reply #152: August 12, 2012, 01:32:25 PM »
This stat seems arguably a better measure of the quality of a teams pitchers than its defense. 

Disagree, MtH.  Basic DIPs theory is that pitchers have very little control over the way a ball in play is fielded.  They have control over the balls not in play, like Ks, BBs, HBPs, and HRs.  It is not correct at the margins.  For example, very high K pitchers seem to induce weaker contact. Flies and groundballs are turned into outs at different rates, so staff full of fly ball pitchers might have a lower BABIP than a normal staff.  But, for the most part, when you aggregate a staff of all different kinds of pitchers, the marginal stuff balances out.

Online houston-nat

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Re: Paul Swydan Believes Braves Will Catch Nats
« Reply #153: August 12, 2012, 01:34:42 PM »
I found the example I was looking for of a play Desmond doesn't make:

http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=22364337&c_id=mlb

Wow.


I saw Simmons in spring training... his defense is unreal. It's amazing.

Offline Evolution33

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Re: Paul Swydan Believes Braves Will Catch Nats
« Reply #154: August 12, 2012, 01:49:19 PM »
Even having missed the past month Desmond is still second in baseball in WAR for short stops with 3.6 to 3.7 for Elvis Andrus. Simmons was having a good year, but Desmond was the best short stop in baseball when he got hurt. Simmons could solve the Braves short stop problems for the future, but he would have to come back on fire to be the reason they catch the Nationals this season. 

Online Slateman

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Re: Paul Swydan Believes Braves Will Catch Nats
« Reply #155: August 12, 2012, 02:10:59 PM »
Even having missed the past month Desmond is still second in baseball in WAR for short stops with 3.6 to 3.7 for Elvis Andrus. Simmons was having a good year, but Desmond was the best short stop in baseball when he got hurt. Simmons could solve the Braves short stop problems for the future, but he would have to come back on fire to be the reason they catch the Nationals this season. 

Simmons was on a 8+ WAR season

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Paul Swydan Believes Braves Will Catch Nats
« Reply #156: August 12, 2012, 02:14:19 PM »
Simmons was on a 8+ WAR season

I'd say that was a bit unsustainable... but then again, this was Desmond's first good year, in pretty much his entire career... so that can always be taken with a grain of salt as well.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: Paul Swydan Believes Braves Will Catch Nats
« Reply #157: August 12, 2012, 02:15:25 PM »
Even having missed the past month Desmond is still second in baseball in WAR for short stops with 3.6 to 3.7 for Elvis Andrus. Simmons was having a good year, but Desmond was the best short stop in baseball when he got hurt. Simmons could solve the Braves short stop problems for the future, but he would have to come back on fire to be the reason they catch the Nationals this season. 


I think (some) people just see the flaws in the Nats players since they see them so often.  We don't have to endure every day of one of Uggla's extended slumps that he has regularly, or the struggles of their lefties against good left handers (.686 OPS versus .825 OPS against righties) - http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/split.cgi?t=b&team=ATL&year=2012.

Desmond was the best shortstop in baseball this year until he got hurt.  Not much arguing with that.  Simmons might be great, might not.  He wasn't even at the top of their depth chart when the season started so his success was probably even a surprise to the Braves.  Pastornicky was supposed to start for them this year.

Offline Jordanz Meatballz

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Re: Paul Swydan Believes Braves Will Catch Nats
« Reply #158: August 12, 2012, 02:16:47 PM »
I wouldn't be surprised if Simmons' defensive metrics get a boost from playing next to Uggla and Chipper instead of Espinosa and Zim, as well.

Again, I'll take the extra home runs at short.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Paul Swydan Believes Braves Will Catch Nats
« Reply #159: August 12, 2012, 02:16:55 PM »
I think (some) people just see the flaws in the Nats players

This is a joke right?

Ever seen a Gameday thread? It's never the other team did something good, it's that the Nats screwed up. All other players on all other players are treated as garbage here.

Realistic views on other players are the last thing you'll find on WNFF.

Offline Smithian

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Re: Paul Swydan Believes Braves Will Catch Nats
« Reply #160: August 12, 2012, 02:17:09 PM »
Re: Paul Swydan Believes Braves Will Catch Nats


If Johnson keeps doing stupid sh*t like last night...(Mike had what 3 strikes in 20 pitches and not 1 person was getting ready to come in) ????

What was that all about !!!!! :doh: :panic: :panic: :asplode:
Bro, it worked.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Paul Swydan Believes Braves Will Catch Nats
« Reply #161: August 12, 2012, 02:18:28 PM »
Bro, it worked.

Thought process and execution are two different things.

Offline Evolution33

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Re: Paul Swydan Believes Braves Will Catch Nats
« Reply #162: August 12, 2012, 02:30:47 PM »
Simmons was on a 8+ WAR season

You're smarter than this.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: Paul Swydan Believes Braves Will Catch Nats
« Reply #163: August 12, 2012, 02:31:56 PM »
This is a joke right?

Ever seen a Gameday thread? It's never the other team did something good, it's that the Nats screwed up. All other players on all other players are treated as garbage here.

Realistic views on other players are the last thing you'll find on WNFF.

I see that, yes, and I see the same handful of posters say that 'Flores/Werth/Desmond/whoever sucks' when they don't get a hit or 'more Strasburg excuses' or whatever when a pitcher gives up a run.

I also noticed that several of the 'offense sucks, get more hitters' complaints have died down since a few guys have come back from injury.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: Paul Swydan Believes Braves Will Catch Nats
« Reply #164: August 12, 2012, 02:33:12 PM »
Thought process and execution are two different things.

Without access to Davey's thought process, we have only results to judge by. 

Offline GMUNat

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Re: Paul Swydan Believes Braves Will Catch Nats
« Reply #165: August 12, 2012, 03:04:34 PM »
He's a dope.  Heyward has been worse than Werth this year, Uggla is in no way better than Espinosa this year and Chipper Jones and Zimm are a push at best.  Bourn has been better than Harper so far this year and Morse would be on par with Prado if not for the injuries. 

I'd take our roster over the Braves any day as long as Strasburg remains at the top of the rotation.

I wouldn't say that. Heyward has a 4.6 WAR this year to Werth's 1.2. Heyward's always been a real good defensive player (minus the Harper play).

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Paul Swydan Believes Braves Will Catch Nats
« Reply #166: August 12, 2012, 03:06:53 PM »
Heyward has been a stud this year.

I'm usually 100% with Minty... but really disagree on his call on Heyward.

Offline Smithian

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Re: Paul Swydan Believes Braves Will Catch Nats
« Reply #167: August 12, 2012, 03:17:44 PM »
Thought process and execution are two different things.

Davey Johnson trusted Gonzalez and it worked out.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Paul Swydan Believes Braves Will Catch Nats
« Reply #168: August 12, 2012, 03:26:38 PM »
Davey Johnson trusted Gonzalez and it worked out.

Once again... thought process and execution are two vastly different things.

RHB vs. Gonzo - .293/.383/.439/.822
LHB vs. Gonzo - .190/.292/.310/.601

Offline Smithian

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Re: Paul Swydan Believes Braves Will Catch Nats
« Reply #169: August 12, 2012, 03:30:11 PM »
Once again... thought process and execution are two vastly different things.

RHB vs. Gonzo - .293/.383/.439/.822
LHB vs. Gonzo - .190/.292/.310/.601
Gonzalez wasn't my first choice so I'm filing it under "Davey Johnson is the Best Manager in the NL for a Reason" category. If it was Acta or Riggleman, I would call it dumb luck, but with Davey I'll say it was a good call.


Offline Evolution33

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Re: Paul Swydan Believes Braves Will Catch Nats
« Reply #170: August 12, 2012, 03:32:44 PM »
Davey is managing the season not a game. He wasn't going to use another reliever.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Paul Swydan Believes Braves Will Catch Nats
« Reply #171: August 12, 2012, 03:33:05 PM »
Gonzalez wasn't my first choice so I'm filing it under "Davey Johnson is the Best Manager in the NL for a Reason" category. If it was Acta or Riggleman, I would call it dumb luck, but with Davey I'll say it was a good call.



That doesn't even make sense. Good managers can make bad calls, it happens.

A bad mistake is a bad mistake regardless of who makes it. And just because it works out does not mean it was put together with a solid thought process.

And, once he made the decision, he should have had Stammen warming from the beginning... and not waiting till it was almost too late.

Offline Smithian

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Re: Paul Swydan Believes Braves Will Catch Nats
« Reply #172: August 12, 2012, 03:45:50 PM »
That doesn't even make sense. Good managers can make bad calls, it happens.

A bad mistake is a bad mistake regardless of who makes it. And just because it works out does not mean it was put together with a solid thought process.
We'll probably have to agree to disagree on this. You have to go with your secondary guys when you give top guys the day off.

Davey Johnson gave Sean Burnett the day off (according to Adam Berry/MLB.com) and he went with the guy he thought had the best ability to get through the inning, which he decided was Gonzalez. I'll admit, I think I may have gone with Stammen.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Paul Swydan Believes Braves Will Catch Nats
« Reply #173: August 12, 2012, 03:48:58 PM »
We'll probably have to agree to disagree on this. You have to go with your secondary guys when you give top guys the day off.

Davey Johnson gave Sean Burnett the day off (according to Adam Berry/MLB.com) and he went with the guy he thought had the best ability to get through the inning, which he decided was Gonzalez. I'll admit, I think I may have gone with Stammen.

So you're telling me if Acta or Riggleman makes the move... it suddenly becomes a bad move?

So, if I'm speeding and get a ticket, and say, someone that has more experience and is more decorated in my field of work is speeding and he somehow gets out of his ticket... it was a bad thing for me to do, but ok for him?

We both made a bad decision.

Offline Smithian

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Re: Paul Swydan Believes Braves Will Catch Nats
« Reply #174: August 12, 2012, 03:58:55 PM »
So you're telling me if Acta or Riggleman makes the move... it suddenly becomes a bad move?

So, if I'm speeding, and say, someone that has more experience and is more decorated in my field of work is speeding... it was a bad thing for me to do, but ok for him?

We both made a bad decision.
You're comparing something that is completely different.

Davey Johnson has a long history of success that deserves benefit of the doubt. I think it was an L-R-L inning or I would have said Storen should be the guy.

The concerning issue may be that Burnett pitched night before with a big lead instead of Gonzalez.

Can't say I put much thought into it past that. End of the day every pitcher in that bullpen is in there for a reason or they're eventually sent away. Gonzo has held his water and there will eventually be a point in September or (:pray:) October that he'll be asked to pitch in a much bigger moment. Glad to see he has the ability to survive high leverage innings.