Author Topic: Nats Acquire C Kurt Suzuki from A's  (Read 4427 times)

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Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: Nats Acquire C Kurt Suzuki from A's
« Reply #150: August 05, 2012, 12:02:05 PM »
Ouch, man. Ouch.

Look if we're going to hate anyone, it's gonna be O's fans like hammonds or Marlins fans like MDS


Offline mimontero88

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Re: Nats Acquire C Kurt Suzuki from A's
« Reply #151: August 05, 2012, 12:02:11 PM »
Makes me an ass because I nitpick eh?  If you do not want your post analyzed or critiqued  when you make such a statement against someone - I'd advise you to re-think what you are to state before you say as such.  Small amount of posts? Yeah.  Minimal posts?  Sure, that works.  "Some of your first posts","first post" - doesn't work.

By your logic no one should say anything ever.  You can nitpick literally anything anyone has said ever.  That's a fact.  The reason it's called nitpicking is because it takes a nit to do it.  There is a difference between debating substance with devices like facts and logic and just nitpicking phrases in posts that aren't relevant to the main point of a post because you can't actually debate the main point of a post.  Instead of trolling and making an ass out of yourself it's better to post nothing at all.

Offline houston-nat

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Re: Nats Acquire C Kurt Suzuki from A's
« Reply #152: August 05, 2012, 12:03:18 PM »
The reason it's called nitpicking is because it takes a nit to do it.
You realize that a nit is the thing being picked, and not an insult on the person doing the picking, right?

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: Nats Acquire C Kurt Suzuki from A's
« Reply #153: August 05, 2012, 12:04:38 PM »
Now your nitpicking. ;)
You realize that a nit is the thing being picked, and not an insult on the person doing the picking, right?


Offline mimontero88

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Re: Nats Acquire C Kurt Suzuki from A's
« Reply #154: August 05, 2012, 12:06:04 PM »
All I'm saying is Suzuki isn't the catcher people think he is.  And I like how you clipped only '08-'11.  You forgot 2007 and 2012.  Ramos will be a good player, and I'm not happy the Nats traded a good young catcher in Frietas to the A's for a guy who is mediocre at best.  Given some more time, Frietas could have blossomed into a great young catcher.
We have to transition from this fear of sacrificing the future for the present that made sense when we weren't winning.  Flores wasn't getting the job done with the bat or defensively.  Suzuki may or may not get the job done with the bat but he is a defensive stud and sacrificing Freitas (a catcher who was hopelessly blocked in this organization behind Ramos, Flores, Solano, and even Leon) is a win now move that really needed to be made.  Put another way, Freitas was never likely to be the difference between us winning a championship or not but Suzuki could be this year.

Offline mimontero88

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Re: Nats Acquire C Kurt Suzuki from A's
« Reply #155: August 05, 2012, 12:07:11 PM »
You realize that a nit is the thing being picked, and not an insult on the person doing the picking, right?

Now your nitpicking. ;)


I loled

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: Nats Acquire C Kurt Suzuki from A's
« Reply #156: August 05, 2012, 12:09:12 PM »
All I'm saying is Suzuki isn't the catcher people think he is.  And I like how you clipped only '08-'11.  You forgot 2007 and 2012.  Ramos will be a good player, and I'm not happy the Nats traded a good young catcher in Frietas to the A's for a guy who is mediocre at best.  Given some more time, Frietas could have blossomed into a great young catcher.

Nobody is calling him the savior.  I don't know where you think we're all expecting him to be a HOF catcher. 

Flores was the current starter and wasn't getting the job done.  So he's going back to a reserve role.  We all know Ramos is our catcher for the next few years, nobody is taking that from him. 

Why would I post Suzuki's numbers from his rookie when he only played in 68 games (with a plus WAR)?

And I already stated Suzuki has struggled this year offensively.  But if history is an indicator, he's usually a pretty decent bat with some pop. 

You had this to say: "And I can safely make the assumption Suzuki won't be successful."

I think a lot of us disagree with that. 

Offline Tribe Time

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Re: Nats Acquire C Kurt Suzuki from A's
« Reply #157: August 05, 2012, 12:17:20 PM »
We have to transition from this fear of sacrificing the future for the present that made sense when we weren't winning.  Flores wasn't getting the job done with the bat or defensively.  Suzuki may or may not get the job done with the bat but he is a defensive stud and sacrificing Freitas (a catcher who was hopelessly blocked in this organization behind Ramos, Flores, Solano, and even Leon) is a win now move that really needed to be made.  Put another way, Freitas was never likely to be the difference between us winning a championship or not but Suzuki could be this year.


I'm not saying Frietas could be the key to the championship this year...not even next year, as he was in High Class A ball.  I don't think Leon is that good, and Flores struggles (not only defensively but offensively as well), but to trade away 2 top prospect catchers within a year?  That concerns me.  Not only that, there needs to be the understanding that when Ramos comes back he IS the starter.  Another huge issue I have is the amount of money Suzuki makes in order, to essentially, be a backup catcher.

He makes $5 million this year, over $6 million next, and in the option year at $8 million.  He gets this salary and he's not even in the top 10 catchers in the league.  Cleveland's Carlos Santana (who will be moved to 1st within 2 years to bring up our young Vietnamese catcher) (and who is one of the better C's in the league) doesn't even make $3.5 million until 2014.  (Then $6 mil. in '15, $8.25 in '16, and $12 mil. in '17).

He gets overpaid to be an average catcher at best.  Not only that, this should stay Ramos's job when he returns.

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/washington-nationals/kurt-suzuki/

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/cleveland-indians/carlos-santana/

Not only that, but they'll need to focus on resigning Ramos as well...

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/washington-nationals/wilson-ramos/

Offline Fan037

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Re: Nats Acquire C Kurt Suzuki from A's
« Reply #158: August 05, 2012, 12:22:44 PM »
Suzuki has got to be thrilled to be traded to such an outstanding team with a legitimate chance at the playoffs.  That alone might improve his batting average.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Nats Acquire C Kurt Suzuki from A's
« Reply #159: August 05, 2012, 12:23:54 PM »
Suzuki has got to be thrilled to be traded to such an outstanding team with a legitimate chance at the playoffs.  That alone might improve his batting average.

Might want to look at the standings. The A's are currently tied for the Wild Card and just 5.5 back of the Rangers (though I don't think they'll catch them).

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: Nats Acquire C Kurt Suzuki from A's
« Reply #160: August 05, 2012, 12:28:23 PM »
I don't think the terms have been announced officially, but it was reported that the As ate a lot of Suzuki's salary this year, and some next year.

Ramos was very badly injured. I think the Nats needed to do something - even if its a little problematic next year - to insure against the chance that Ramos may never catch again. I don't know if Suzuki is the right move or not, but assuming the Nats don't pick up the option, they at least have a capable major league catcher next year.

I'm not saying Frietas could be the key to the championship this year...not even next year, as he was in High Class A ball.  I don't think Leon is that good, and Flores struggles (not only defensively but offensively as well), but to trade away 2 top prospect catchers within a year?  That concerns me.  Not only that, there needs to be the understanding that when Ramos comes back he IS the starter.  Another huge issue I have is the amount of money Suzuki makes in order, to essentially, be a backup catcher.

He makes $5 million this year, over $6 million next, and in the option year at $8 million.  He gets this salary and he's not even in the top 10 catchers in the league.  Cleveland's Carlos Santana (who will be moved to 1st within 2 years to bring up our young Vietnamese catcher) (and who is one of the better C's in the league) doesn't even make $3.5 million until 2014.  (Then $6 mil. in '15, $8.25 in '16, and $12 mil. in '17).

He gets overpaid to be an average catcher at best.  Not only that, this should stay Ramos's job when he returns.

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/washington-nationals/kurt-suzuki/

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/cleveland-indians/carlos-santana/

Not only that, but they'll need to focus on resigning Ramos as well...

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/washington-nationals/wilson-ramos/



Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Nats Acquire C Kurt Suzuki from A's
« Reply #161: August 05, 2012, 12:51:19 PM »
I'm sorry, but anyone pushing Freitas as a big deal doesn't have a strong grasp of the type of players he is. He's not polished enough to stick at catcher long term and his bat isn't strong enough to translate to 1B, plus with Norris in town, he's blocked for years and years in Oakland, at best hoping for another trade/injury.

He's, as they say, a valuable organizational soldier.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Nats Acquire C Kurt Suzuki from A's
« Reply #162: August 05, 2012, 12:52:41 PM »
I'm not saying Frietas could be the key to the championship this year...not even next year, as he was in High Class A ball.  I don't think Leon is that good, and Flores struggles (not only defensively but offensively as well), but to trade away 2 top prospect catchers within a year?  That concerns me.  Not only that, there needs to be the understanding that when Ramos comes back he IS the starter.  Another huge issue I have is the amount of money Suzuki makes in order, to essentially, be a backup catcher.

He makes $5 million this year, over $6 million next, and in the option year at $8 million.  He gets this salary and he's not even in the top 10 catchers in the league.  Cleveland's Carlos Santana (who will be moved to 1st within 2 years to bring up our young Vietnamese catcher) (and who is one of the better C's in the league) doesn't even make $3.5 million until 2014.  (Then $6 mil. in '15, $8.25 in '16, and $12 mil. in '17).

He gets overpaid to be an average catcher at best.  Not only that, this should stay Ramos's job when he returns.

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/washington-nationals/kurt-suzuki/

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/cleveland-indians/carlos-santana/

Not only that, but they'll need to focus on resigning Ramos as well...

http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/washington-nationals/wilson-ramos/


Has anyone actually speculated that the job won't be Ramos's when he returns? Everyone seems to accept that next season he's the #1 guy, unless on the off chance Suzuki out-produces him. And then the team is paying a solid backup catcher $6 million, which isn't a big deal considering Ramos can then get more breaks and there won't be a huge drop-off in production (ideally).

And trading Freitas means nothing. Derek Norris was a valuable trade chip because of Ramos, and Freitas likely wasn't even going to be a catcher much longer.

Offline mimontero88

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Re: Nats Acquire C Kurt Suzuki from A's
« Reply #163: August 05, 2012, 01:06:40 PM »
I'm sorry, but anyone pushing Freitas as a big deal doesn't have a strong grasp of the type of players he is. He's not polished enough to stick at catcher long term and his bat isn't strong enough to translate to 1B, plus with Norris in town, he's blocked for years and years in Oakland, at best hoping for another trade/injury.

He's, as they say, a valuable organizational soldier.

Plus this. Couldn't have said that better.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Nats Acquire C Kurt Suzuki from A's
« Reply #164: August 05, 2012, 01:11:01 PM »
I'm sorry, but anyone pushing Freitas as a big deal doesn't have a strong grasp of the type of players he is. He's not polished enough to stick at catcher long term and his bat isn't strong enough to translate to 1B, plus with Norris in town, he's blocked for years and years in Oakland, at best hoping for another trade/injury.

He's, as they say, a valuable organizational soldier.



My problem with the trade was mainly with Suzuki's awful hitting, didn't think he was worth Freitas

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Nats Acquire C Kurt Suzuki from A's
« Reply #165: August 05, 2012, 01:11:24 PM »
I'm sorry, but anyone pushing Freitas as a big deal doesn't have a strong grasp of the type of players he is. He's not polished enough to stick at catcher long term and his bat isn't strong enough to translate to 1B, plus with Norris in town, he's blocked for years and years in Oakland, at best hoping for another trade/injury.

He's, as they say, a valuable organizational soldier.

I have no problem with people valuing prospects based on numbers they put up (as long as they realize no one will agree with them), I still hold onto my belief that Skole will be our best pick of the '11 draft

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Nats Acquire C Kurt Suzuki from A's
« Reply #166: August 05, 2012, 06:26:41 PM »
I tried to cut out some of the personal back and forth that did not have baseball substance.   Sorry if I went a bit too far, but let's keep the focus on evaluations of Suzuki and the trade and not posting styles.

Offline BigMeech

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Re: Nats Acquire C Kurt Suzuki from A's
« Reply #167: August 05, 2012, 06:59:07 PM »
Jaso was still my first option but I'm coming around to the notion of Suzuki being the catcher for the rest of the year IF he can regain some of what he used to be.  If not, I don't think this trade would have done much since as of now, his production is actually worse than Flores.

Should have traded for Jaso :)

Offline epic_phalanx

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Re: Nats Acquire C Kurt Suzuki from A's
« Reply #168: August 05, 2012, 06:59:29 PM »
I think this was a good trade for us. With Ramos out, the options at catcher were Flores (struggling, relatively unproven), Leon and Solano (untested rooks) and Maldonado (career minor leaguer). We didn't give up much in Freitas, who at this point is nothing but a decent-hitting catcher in Single A who might not even be able to stick at the position. Suzuki is having a down year offensively, but if he can simply produce the same numbers as Flores while doing SOMETHING to keep the other team from stealing every possible base, it's a nice addition to the roster. There's also the very real chance that the change in scenery will lead to Suzuki returning to his established level of offensive production.

Offline tomterp

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Re: Nats Acquire C Kurt Suzuki from A's
« Reply #169: August 05, 2012, 07:04:08 PM »
Now your nitpicking. ;)

Sorry, but it's "you're".

 :mg:

Offline BigMeech

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Re: Nats Acquire C Kurt Suzuki from A's
« Reply #170: August 05, 2012, 07:09:07 PM »
crap just got real.

Re: Nats Acquire C Kurt Suzuki from A's
« Reply #171: August 05, 2012, 07:10:31 PM »
I think this was a good trade for us. With Ramos out, the options at catcher were Flores (struggling, relatively unproven), Leon and Solano (untested rooks) and Maldonado (career minor leaguer). We didn't give up much in Freitas, who at this point is nothing but a decent-hitting catcher in Single A who might not even be able to stick at the position. Suzuki is having a down year offensively, but if he can simply produce the same numbers as Flores while doing SOMETHING to keep the other team from stealing every possible base, it's a nice addition to the roster. There's also the very real chance that the change in scenery will lead to Suzuki returning to his established level of offensive production.
I agree, im tired off ppl just looking at stats and saying"this guy sucks" and have never seen the guy play cause there in bed when hes playing majority of the time. Rizzo got him because his D is solid, hes young and a great athlete. Change of scenery from oakland which is a huge ballpark is def goin to help.

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: Nats Acquire C Kurt Suzuki from A's
« Reply #172: August 05, 2012, 07:12:14 PM »
I agree, im tired off ppl just looking at stats and saying"this guy sucks" and have never seen the guy play cause there in bed when hes playing majority of the time. Rizzo got him because his D is solid, hes young and a great athlete. Change of scenery from oakland which is a huge ballpark is def goin to help.

pretty much. 

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: Nats Acquire C Kurt Suzuki from A's
« Reply #173: August 05, 2012, 07:37:28 PM »
Bah. I just didn't finish the sentence. "Now your nitpicking about what gets picked will be criticized."

That's what I meant to type. :shock:
Sorry, but it's "you're".



 :mg:

(If caught in a grammatical error, deflect.)

Re: Nats Acquire C Kurt Suzuki from A's
« Reply #174: August 05, 2012, 07:41:14 PM »
 :az:
Bah. I just didn't finish the sentence. "Now your nitpicking about what gets picked will be criticized."

That's what I meant to type. :shock:
(If caught in a grammatical error, deflect.)
:az: