Author Topic: Ups and Downs with the Indians  (Read 2341 times)

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Offline Tribe Time

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Ups and Downs with the Indians
« Topic Start: July 29, 2012, 07:54:49 PM »
This is our general Indians Thread.  Stuff about Acta or that has a Nats angle is left in other threads. 

It's frustrating to be an Indians fan.  I think Manny Acta is a good manager, but our front office is full of air-heads.  Larry Dolan (Owner) and Chris Antonetti (GM) are awful.  We have a limited farm system, and our owner won't spend money. 

But being a Nats fan as well, I'm happy to see the success of the Nats.  Honestly, I could see them making the World Series.

Hey, I got a good idea.  Lets make a trade.  We trade Shin-Soo Choo to the Nats for Jayson Werth and a few minor league prospects.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Sigh...
« Reply #1: July 29, 2012, 07:56:36 PM »
I'd do that in a heartbeat. By the way, I love the Indians, especially Chief Wahoo.

Offline Tribe Time

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Re: Sigh...
« Reply #2: July 29, 2012, 08:06:05 PM »
Chief Wahoo rules.  Sad to see the Indians phasing away from it and back to their old block letter "C".  I have Indian blood in me, and I'm not offended.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Sigh...
« Reply #3: July 29, 2012, 08:26:35 PM »
They're really not going to completely do away with him are they?  That's pathetic if so.  By the way, Pronk still rules.

Offline RobDibblesGhost

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Re: Sigh...
« Reply #4: July 29, 2012, 09:10:13 PM »
It's frustrating to be an Indians fan.  I think Manny Acta is a good manager, but our front office is full of air-heads.  Larry Dolan (Owner) and Chris Antonetti (GM) are awful.  We have a limited farm system, and our owner won't spend money. 

But being a Nats fan as well, I'm happy to see the success of the Nats.  Honestly, I could see them making the World Series.

Hey, I got a good idea.  Lets make a trade.  We trade Shin-Soo Choo to the Nats for Jayson Werth and a few minor league prospects.


Welcome!  My older brother is die-hard Indians fan (you're not in Des Moines by chance, are you?).  Your gripes are the same ones that have been brought up around here for years (especially the owners being cheap!).  I wasn't a big Acta fan when he was here, but maybe he's a good manager.  There's still slight hope for the Indians this season, so who knows...

Offline tomterp

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Re: Sigh...
« Reply #5: July 29, 2012, 09:11:16 PM »
It's frustrating to be an Indians fan.  I think Manny Acta is a good manager, but our front office is full of air-heads.  Larry
Hey, I got a good idea.  Lets make a trade.  We trade Shin-Soo Choo to the Nats for Jayson Werth and a few minor league prospects.

Done.  Have your guy call my guy and finish up the details.

Offline CALSGR8

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Re: Sigh...
« Reply #6: July 29, 2012, 09:14:48 PM »
You wand Werth's salary?  Really?

I went to college 30 miles east of Cleveland and went to the old stadium twice.  You're probably too young for Cory Snyder,Joe Charboneau, and Duane Kuiper!

Saw the Os play a doubleheader where they split!

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Sigh...
« Reply #7: July 29, 2012, 09:47:41 PM »
Acta does better in the AL where you don't need to think as much to manage.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Sigh...
« Reply #8: July 29, 2012, 10:08:36 PM »
As the boards resident Indians fan, welcome!

As the boards resident Indians fan, welcome back.

Also, while it would be great for the Nats I don't think that it would help our Tribe win games.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Sigh...
« Reply #9: July 29, 2012, 10:10:24 PM »
:nono:

I have multiple Indians hats, shirts, and carry a Chief Wahoo wallet.

Offline Obed_Marsh

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Re: Sigh...
« Reply #10: July 29, 2012, 10:15:19 PM »
I'd to take this opportunity to apologize for Manny Acta. If you like him, feel free to keep him.

Offline CALSGR8

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Re: Sigh...
« Reply #11: July 29, 2012, 10:30:27 PM »
Hey Tribe time.  ISthe Michael Stanley band still around?

Offline Tribe Time

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Re: Sigh...
« Reply #12: July 30, 2012, 01:54:57 AM »
I'd to take this opportunity to apologize for Manny Acta. If you like him, feel free to keep him.

I don't see how Nats fans think he's a bad manager.  How can you claim as such when Jim Bowden was the one who physically gave you garbage players.  Its just like Chris Antonetti in Cleveland.  Bowden got almost every cut or waived Reds player.  With Antonetti, he likes getting bums like Cunningham, Damon, Lillibridge, Donald, Jimenez, Lowe, Tomlin, Sipp...

If we had better decision making

Offline Tribe Time

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Re: Sigh...
« Reply #13: July 30, 2012, 01:56:04 AM »
Acta does better in the AL where you don't need to think as much to manage.

PANats, if you think the AL is a league, you need not to have to think in, you're sadly mistaken

Online mitlen

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Re: Sigh...
« Reply #14: July 30, 2012, 07:47:43 AM »
You wand Werth's salary?  Really?

I went to college 30 miles east of Cleveland and went to the old stadium twice. 

Ashtabula?    :)

Offline Obed_Marsh

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Re: Sigh...
« Reply #15: July 30, 2012, 08:04:58 AM »
I don't see how Nats fans think he's a bad manager.


.385 and a career loser who seems to actually enjoy it. If you want to know who is as a manager Defensive Substitutes Used (DU), Long Outing (LO), and IBB Good Result metrics. He is a timid as they come. As I said, trying to be nice here, so keep him and feel free to consider yourself "lucky".  This isn't all on Bowden, as time passes he will drive your team into the ground.

You may be surprised to learn that after honeymoon ended he was not generally well regarded in D.C. and time has not done him any favors. Unscientific poll.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Sigh...
« Reply #16: July 30, 2012, 08:15:47 AM »
Just wait until he pulls sluggers with a one run lead in the fifth for defensive subs

Online blue911

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Re: Sigh...
« Reply #17: July 30, 2012, 08:16:19 AM »
.385 and a career loser who seems to actually enjoy it. If you want to know who is as a manager Defensive Substitutes Used (DU), Long Outing (LO), and IBB Good Result metrics. He is a timid as they come. As I said, trying to be nice here, so keep him and feel free to consider yourself "lucky".  This isn't all on Bowden, as time passes he will drive your team into the ground.

You may be surprised to learn that after honeymoon ended he was not generally well regarded in D.C. Unscientific poll.


He was an extremely nice man, should have been a playground monitor.

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Sigh...
« Reply #18: July 30, 2012, 10:19:00 AM »
It's frustrating to be an Indians fan.  I think Manny Acta is a good manager

There goes my respect for you. :P

Seriously, I don't know what his disposition is like in Cleveland, but in Washington, he didn't support his players at all and they quit on him.  Sometimes it's hard to get a sense of that as a fan, when you're not in the clubhouse or anything, but it was clear as day during Acta's time here.

He just never went out to argue calls that were really egregious (and the Nats used to get hosed all the time when they were horrible because umps didn't respect them), and his answer to everything was to glowingly praise players on the other side.

There was one moment that really summed up his tenure - Adam Dunn hit a home run at Citi Field in early 2009 that grazed the part of their OF wall that was considered home run territory.  It was called a non-home run by the umpires.  Adam Dunn got ejected because he had to stand there and argue with the umpire for himself, seeing as how Acta wouldn't even bother coming out of the dugout or saying anything to any of the umps.

Jim Riggleman - Jim freaking Riggleman! - was .150 percentage points better as a manager with the same team (took over in July of '09).  And Riggleman isn't even a good manager!

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Sigh...
« Reply #19: July 30, 2012, 10:23:18 AM »
God, I miss the Colonel.  Does anyone have video of that post game where Acta was like "why is he stressed?  Last place ballclub, half-empty stadium, no lead to hold.  This is a pretty fair ballpark." 

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Sigh...
« Reply #20: July 30, 2012, 10:29:51 AM »
Note: Don't mistake MDS's admiration for Acta's uncanny ability to keep calm in the middle a holy crap tornado with admiration for Acta's baseball abilities.

Offline Obed_Marsh

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Re: Sigh...
« Reply #21: July 30, 2012, 10:33:15 AM »
Jim Riggleman - Jim freaking Riggleman! - was .150 percentage points better as a manager with the same team (took over in July of '09).  And Riggleman isn't even a good manager!

Yup. Exactly. He made Riggleman look good. :spaz:

Offline comish4lif

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Re: Sigh... (Indians' Fan Lament)
« Reply #22: July 30, 2012, 03:39:22 PM »
I don't see how Nats fans think he's a bad manager.  How can you claim as such when Jim Bowden was the one who physically gave you garbage players.  Its just like Chris Antonetti in Cleveland.  Bowden got almost every cut or waived Reds player.  With Antonetti, he likes getting bums like Cunningham, Damon, Lillibridge, Donald, Jimenez, Lowe, Tomlin, Sipp...

If we had better decision making

He was a bad manager when he was here. But if you like him, more power to you.

I'll back up what others have said here with a question. Does Manny go out to argue calls/talk to the umps in Cleveland? He didn't here and it seemed like the Umps shoved it to the Nats on anything close, since they knew Manny was going to stand on the dugout steps and chew his gum.

Manny's record over 6 seasons: 357-479 - a .427 winning percentage. Do you feel like he's getting the most out of his roster?

Look, the on-field stuff, double switches, lineups is maybe 20% of the manager's job. The hard part is managing the clubhouse and getting the players to accept their roles, communicating changes, being consistent, etc. I don't know what his clubhouse was like here, since I wasn't in there, but it seemed to improve when he left...

Offline CALSGR8

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Re: Sigh... (Indians' Fan Lament)
« Reply #23: July 30, 2012, 09:09:07 PM »
Ashtabula?    :)

HIRAM COLLEGE in good ol' Hiram OH.  Real close to Garrettsville and Aurora!

Offline Tribe Time

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Re: Sigh... (Indians' Fan Lament)
« Reply #24: July 31, 2012, 10:23:07 AM »
He was a bad manager when he was here. But if you like him, more power to you.

I'll back up what others have said here with a question. Does Manny go out to argue calls/talk to the umps in Cleveland? He didn't here and it seemed like the Umps shoved it to the Nats on anything close, since they knew Manny was going to stand on the dugout steps and chew his gum.

Manny's record over 6 seasons: 357-479 - a .427 winning percentage. Do you feel like he's getting the most out of his roster?

Look, the on-field stuff, double switches, lineups is maybe 20% of the manager's job. The hard part is managing the clubhouse and getting the players to accept their roles, communicating changes, being consistent, etc. I don't know what his clubhouse was like here, since I wasn't in there, but it seemed to improve when he left...

That's a major problem I do have with Acta.  He just doesn't have fire power to him.  We've gotten jipped in quite a few calls this year, and all I've ever seen Acta do is stand there with his arms folded and shaking his head in disagreement.  He doesn't go out and argue with the umps, and he just seems like he doesn't want to lose his spot in the dugout.  He has a great repoire with the players (but then again when you have some players like Lillibridge, Duncan, Damon, Hanahan, Sipp, etc... who are just happy to be on a major league roster - I can see why).  (God only knows what Santana, Kipnis, Cabrera, Brantley, Choo, Pestano, etc... are all thinking).

I do like Acta because he's gotten some of our hitters, who for some reason, forgot how to hit, to hit. 

...But actually come to think of it, I think that's more the accomplishment of our bench coach Sandy Alomar Jr.  I've been upset with the fact that Acta loves to play inferior players against top pitchers.

I guess in retrospect, I like Acta as a person.  He's a friendly guy and whatnot, but I do think that if we don't start turning the season around (hell, we got swept by the last place Twins...in the worst division in baseball - and when I say swept, I mean manhandled), then he needs to go.  I'd love to see Sandy Alomar Jr. take over as manager and hire Omar Vizquel (who will be retiring after this year) as his bench coach.  Would be really cool.  Alomar is loved as is Vizquel by Cleveland fans - and people around MLB.  And they actually go out and get on the umps...

But that's why it's good I'm a Nats fan as well.  When they were in Montreal, I was helping out by going around getting signatures to support the move here from people like me. (Just regular joes).  I love the game baseball - nothing like it.  And I love DC having a baseball team - seeing as they had it ripped away from them...twice.  The lineup the Nats have is sick.  Right now the Nats are talking about getting Kelly Shoppach (C) from Boston - who played for Cleveland.  Good player - not the strongest arm.  And if we did that proposed trade (just for fun), I mentioned earlier, imagine this lineup:  RF - Choo, LF - Harper 3B - Zimmerman 1B - LaRoche CF - Morse   SS - Desmond  2B - Espinosa  1B - Ramos/Shoppach.

We already all know the pitching staff is filthy.  Honestly, I don't think there is one better in MLB.