Author Topic: "Holiday Road" - The Official Vacation Thread  (Read 145141 times)

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Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: "Holiday Road" - The Official Vacation Thread
« Reply #1200: September 03, 2017, 04:11:26 PM »
There was an "Iron Pig" who used to post here a while back.  Take photos!
I'm about to see the Lehigh Valley IronPigs play a game in Allentown, PA.

Offline Natsinpwc

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Re: "Holiday Road" - The Official Vacation Thread
« Reply #1201: September 05, 2017, 04:27:09 PM »
We spent some time last week with the kids at Little Glen Lake near Sleeping Bear Dunes National Lakeshore. Beautiful country and had some fun kayaking and climbing the dunes. Then drove up to the Mackinac Bridge. Charlevoix looks like a pretty little town to spend some time in.

Drove across Route 2 after the bridge across the Upper Peninsula. Beautiful country but desolate. Then we stopped at Menominee Michigan for the night. Right on the border with Wisconsin. Next day to Green Bat and Milwaukee for the game which are detailed in the Miller Park thread.

On the drive down from Green Bay to Mikwaukee I have to say that the weather looked like a bleak November day to me. Can't imagine what it looks like in the winter.

Lots of driving but a great trip. Would highly recommend the northern part of Michigan near the Lake for a vacation.

Online varoadking

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Re: "Holiday Road" - The Official Vacation Thread
« Reply #1202: September 05, 2017, 04:51:47 PM »

Lots of driving but a great trip. Would highly recommend the northern part of Michigan near the Lake for a vacation.

My dad built a lake house just north of Land O' Lakes Wisconsin...on the Michigan side...40 years ago.  Summers were horrific with the mosquitoes, but the winters were a total blast with snowmobiles.

We went to the tribal casino somewhere up there about 10 years ago.  It's really pretty country...nice to visit, but I wouldn't want to live there...


Offline mitlen

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Re: "Holiday Road" - The Official Vacation Thread
« Reply #1203: September 05, 2017, 06:12:50 PM »
We spent some time last week with the kids at Little Glen Lake near Sleeping Bear Dunes National Lakeshore. Beautiful country and had some fun kayaking and climbing the dunes. Then drove up to the Mackinac Bridge. Charlevoix looks like a pretty little town to spend some time in.

Drove across Route 2 after the bridge across the Upper Peninsula. Beautiful country but desolate. Then we stopped at Menominee Michigan for the night. Right on the border with Wisconsin. Next day to Green Bat and Milwaukee for the game which are detailed in the Miller Park thread.

On the drive down from Green Bay to Mikwaukee I have to say that the weather looked like a bleak November day to me. Can't imagine what it looks like in the winter.

Lots of driving but a great trip. Would highly recommend the northern part of Michigan near the Lake for a vacation.

Missus' dad is from the UP.    As a kid, the only thing she can recall is the horse flies on the shores of Lake Superior.

Offline Count Walewski

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Re: "Holiday Road" - The Official Vacation Thread
« Reply #1204: September 07, 2017, 08:47:10 AM »
There was an "Iron Pig" who used to post here a while back.  Take photos!

The Lehigh Valley IronPigs was the top minor league baseball experience I've yet had.

This team is just entirely dedicated to the pig concept. When you walk into the park, you are handed a "pork passport" that features some of the stadium's many pork-based concessions. The idea is that as you eat each of these pork products, you get a stamp on your passport. They are things like pulled pork sandwich on doughnut, bacon deep fried in funnel cake batter, a pork parfait, etc.

Then many sections of the ballpark have pig themed names. Along the outfield concourse there is a rail where you can stand and eat: this is called the "Bacon Strip". The premium box seats in the outfield are called the "Pig Pen". If you sit in the Pig Pen, which I did, you get in seat wait service and your food comes in feed buckets, just like pig food.

All throughout the stadium there are also thought balloons hanging from the wall containing pro-pork quotes. People stand under these and get photographed so it looks like these quotes are coming from them, like in a cartoon. They also have representations of bacon incorporated into the design of the stadium.

The team also has an alternative uniform where their logo is replaced by a piece of bacon, and this sells very well. I also heard something about a "bacon pinstripe" alt uni, but did not see anything like this in the team store.

I have not yet been to some of the legendary minor league experiences like the St. Paul Saints or the Frisco Rough Riders, but I can highly recommend the Lehigh Valley IronPigs.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: "Holiday Road" - The Official Vacation Thread
« Reply #1205: September 07, 2017, 09:36:18 AM »
The Lehigh Valley IronPigs was the top minor league baseball experience I've yet had.

This team is just entirely dedicated to the pig concept. When you walk into the park, you are handed a "pork passport" that features some of the stadium's many pork-based concessions. The idea is that as you eat each of these pork products, you get a stamp on your passport. They are things like pulled pork sandwich on doughnut, bacon deep fried in funnel cake batter, a pork parfait, etc.

Then many sections of the ballpark have pig themed names. Along the outfield concourse there is a rail where you can stand and eat: this is called the "Bacon Strip". The premium box seats in the outfield are called the "Pig Pen". If you sit in the Pig Pen, which I did, you get in seat wait service and your food comes in feed buckets, just like pig food.

All throughout the stadium there are also thought balloons hanging from the wall containing pro-pork quotes. People stand under these and get photographed so it looks like these quotes are coming from them, like in a cartoon. They also have representations of bacon incorporated into the design of the stadium.

The team also has an alternative uniform where their logo is replaced by a piece of bacon, and this sells very well. I also heard something about a "bacon pinstripe" alt uni, but did not see anything like this in the team store.

I have not yet been to some of the legendary minor league experiences like the St. Paul Saints or the Frisco Rough Riders, but I can highly recommend the Lehigh Valley IronPigs.
So, I'm guessing not many fans keep kosher / halal.

Offline Count Walewski

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Re: "Holiday Road" - The Official Vacation Thread
« Reply #1206: September 07, 2017, 11:26:18 AM »
I did see two guys in Yarmulkes in the stadium, but they were cheering for the visiting Scranton/Wilkes-Barre RailRiders.

Offline dracnal

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Re: "Holiday Road" - The Official Vacation Thread
« Reply #1207: September 07, 2017, 01:14:46 PM »
Missus' dad is from the UP.    As a kid, the only thing she can recall is the horse flies on the shores of Lake Superior.

I believe you mean the horse sized flies. Those things are brutal.

Offline wj73

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Re: "Holiday Road" - The Official Vacation Thread
« Reply #1208: September 13, 2017, 10:53:59 AM »
I've got a girls' week in Daytona Beach coming up in early November. About 10 of us are coming in from all over the US. I'm wondering if Daytona will be in any shape to receive tourists by then. Looks like they had a lot of flooding.  :(

Offline imref

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Re: "Holiday Road" - The Official Vacation Thread
« Reply #1209: September 13, 2017, 10:59:46 AM »
I've got a girls' week in Daytona Beach coming up in early November. About 10 of us are coming in from all over the US. I'm wondering if Daytona will be in any shape to receive tourists by then. Looks like they had a lot of flooding.  :(

I'd recommend you call the hotel.  I was supposed to attend a conference near Naples next week but the hotel that was to host it is closed until at least October due to storm damage.

Offline wj73

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Re: "Holiday Road" - The Official Vacation Thread
« Reply #1210: September 13, 2017, 11:36:10 AM »
I'd recommend you call the hotel.  I was supposed to attend a conference near Naples next week but the hotel that was to host it is closed until at least October due to storm damage.

Good idea.  I just sent a message to the organizer asking her.  She's in The Villages down there and got through Irma OK, but with power and other issues, so I imagine this isn't at the top of her list right now. 

Offline OldChelsea

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Re: "Holiday Road" - The Official Vacation Thread
« Reply #1211: September 14, 2017, 08:31:42 AM »
Why you don't enjoy clearing immigration at US airports (apart from the goshawful queues) - latest episode of CBP Officers Behaving Badly: http://www.yahoo.com/gma/federal-officers-arrested-hazing-victims-using-rape-table-184504782--abc-news-topstories.html

[thank goodness I'm in Global Entry - don't have to deal with these losers except to hand in my kiosk print-out]

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: "Holiday Road" - The Official Vacation Thread
« Reply #1212: September 14, 2017, 09:34:37 AM »
You mean physical hazing isn't supposed to be part of a professional environment?

Offline wj73

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Re: "Holiday Road" - The Official Vacation Thread
« Reply #1213: September 14, 2017, 07:22:04 PM »
I'd recommend you call the hotel.  I was supposed to attend a conference near Naples next week but the hotel that was to host it is closed until at least October due to storm damage.

Turns out hotel was flooded but they anticipate being cleaned up by November. Hooray!  There'll be 8-10 60+ women hitting Daytona sans hubbies, kids, and grandkids. Do the "stays there" rules apply to Daytona? 

(Of course we all talk big. The truth is that we'll probably all be in our jammies by 9 every night.   :mg: )

Offline skippy1999

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Re: "Holiday Road" - The Official Vacation Thread
« Reply #1214: September 14, 2017, 07:48:57 PM »
Turns out hotel was flooded but they anticipate being cleaned up by November. Hooray!  There'll be 8-10 60+ women hitting Daytona sans hubbies, kids, and grandkids. Do the "stays there" rules apply to Daytona? 

(Of course we all talk big. The truth is that we'll probably all be in our jammies by 9 every night.   :mg: )

And having a ton of fun doing that :mg: seriously staying in with girlfriends is the best, so glad you can do your trip :thumbs:

Offline mitlen

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Re: "Holiday Road" - The Official Vacation Thread
« Reply #1215: September 14, 2017, 07:52:40 PM »
Turns out hotel was flooded but they anticipate being cleaned up by November. Hooray!  There'll be 8-10 60+ women hitting Daytona sans hubbies, kids, and grandkids. Do the "stays there" rules apply to Daytona? 

(Of course we all talk big. The truth is that we'll probably all be in our jammies by 9 every night.   :mg: )

Piece on the news tonight about four friends from Loudoun CO who got stuck on St. John.

http://www.wusa9.com/weather/irma/loudoun-county-friends-survived-hurricane-irma-on-st-john/474963919

Online varoadking

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Re: "Holiday Road" - The Official Vacation Thread
« Reply #1216: September 14, 2017, 08:15:57 PM »
Piece on the news tonight about four friends from Loudoun CO who got stuck on St. John.

http://www.wusa9.com/weather/irma/loudoun-county-friends-survived-hurricane-irma-on-st-john/474963919

What's the name of the boat dock there?  Port o' John?

Offline mitlen

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Re: "Holiday Road" - The Official Vacation Thread
« Reply #1217: September 14, 2017, 08:16:50 PM »
What's the name of the boat dock there?  Port o' John?

:smh:

Offline imref

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Re: "Holiday Road" - The Official Vacation Thread
« Reply #1218: September 17, 2017, 09:18:02 PM »
Not sure where else this fits, but did anyone else go to the air show at Andrews this year?  We saw the T-birds today.  What an awesome show.

Offline wj73

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Re: "Holiday Road" - The Official Vacation Thread
« Reply #1219: September 27, 2017, 11:24:39 AM »
Just got back from a history trip to the "Historic Triangle"- Williamsburg, Jamestown, Yorktown.  After 3 days there we headed to Goochland County where hubby's Huguenot ancestors settled after arriving in Jamestown in 1700, and even found the approximate location of their land grant (a highway runs through it now).  From Goochland we went to Charlottesville for a visit to Monticello and the iconic UVA Rotunda.

I was very impressed with the Historic Triangle.  I hadn't visited Williamsburg since I was a kid, and of course at that time did not really appreciate it.  For those who might not remember, the timeframe recreated is the 1770's, just prior to the Revolutionary War, as residents of the time grapple with the issue of whether they want independence from Britain or not.  While sometimes a bit on the Disney side of cleaned-up history, it seemed to be that they are beginning to grapple with the totality of history, including slavery and the uncomfortable fact that many residents were Royalists.  We took various tours and found all the guides to be enthusiastic and knowledgeable.  The various craftspeople doing demos - wigmaker, blacksmith, weaver, shoemaker, tinsmith, etc. - were all passionate about what they did, and conveyed that passion to us.  We stayed at one of the official hotels - the Williamsburg Woodlands.  It was heavy on tour groups and people with kids, but the staff were friendly and helpful, and a full breakfast buffet is included in your rate. 

The next day we went back in time to Jamestown, circa 1607-1699.  Visiting Jamestown is interesting as there are two places to see.  Historic Jamestown is an NPS site located at the actual site of the settlement, and is now an active archeological dig.  There's a museum there of artifacts they've discovered.  There's also "Jamestown Settlement" which is a few minutes away, and is a re-creation of the Jamestown settlement - basically a fake version of the real thing down the road.  Jamestown settlement also has an extensive museum tracing the history of Jamestown, from the first landing in 1607 all the way up to 1699 when the capital was moved to Williamsburg.  The museum details the clashes with the Powhatan natives, the role of Pocahontas, the actions of Capt. John Smith, and how Jamestown was the place where the first slaves were brought to the English settlements in 1619.  We went to Jamestown Settlement first, which worked out well, as when we went to the real Historic Jamestown, we already had a lot of background knowledge to appreciate what we were seeing.

Then we went forward in time to 1781 to Yorktown, where Britain's Cornwallis surrendered to George Washington after the Siege of Yorktown.  Yorktown, Cornwallis, and the battle there were things I'd learned about in school decades ago and had pretty much forgotten, so it was nice to return there as a grown up to get a much better understanding of the significance of Yorktown.  We only had time for half a day at Yorktown, and I wish we'd allowed more time.  There's a brand new visitor center that just opened in April 2017, and like Jamestown, has an extensive museum tracing the origins of the Revolutionary War through the war itself and the aftermath.  There are also outdoor exhibits, like the recreation of a battlefield campground, but we didn't get to see nearly as much of that as we liked.

We took a short detour to Goochland County, where hubby had an appointment to visit the Huguenot Library to do some genealogical research. He managed to pick up a few tidbits, including that a couple of ancestors fought in the Revolutionary War.  (As opposed to my ancestors in New England who were apparently staunch Loyalists, as they fled to Canada immediately after the American victory and didn't return for over 100 years.) On our way to Charlottesville, we stopped at one of the numerous wineries in the area for a tasting, strictly for research purposes, of course.   :lol:

Monticello of course was magnificent.  It was Jefferson's masterpiece, and a place he'd created for himself and hoped could be passed down to his children and grandchildren. Everyplace you looked, there was some small incredible detail that just added to the wonder of the place. I loved it.  It brought home to me how brilliant Jefferson was as a scientist and intellectual, while at the same time how incredibly impractical and shortsighted he was financially.  I hadn't realized that he died over $100,000 in debt, which required his family to sell Monticello and everything in it just to pay off the debts - so much for creating a masterpiece to pass down to family.  As with the other places we'd been, the guides and materials present a much more nuanced view of Jefferson than the one-dimensional rah-rah version that was a standard part of history studies when I was in school, and with that he became much more of a real person.  The Monticello society is still grappling with some of the history, especially slavery and the Sally Hemings history, and any internal struggles Jefferson may have had.  But it seems that they are trying more than they used to, and are doing more research into the lives of the enslaved individuals.  But in my opinion, Mount Vernon is much further along in the process of acknowledging of how enslaved people were an essential part of the estate's history, and in exploring Washington's own moral grappling with the matter.   

Charlottesville is still in shock from recent events.  The spot where that beautiful young woman was murdered still has flowers, and the walls of the buildings facing the site have been covered with chalked heartfelt expressions of love for her and expressions of love trumping hate.  Local shops display small signs with two simple graphics - one with "C'ville" written on a heart, and the other that simply says "Heather" with a small heart next to it.  The Confederate statues are still covered, and at the site of that horrifying torchlit rally at the Rotunda on UVA's campus, officials have placed a piece of hard plastic on the ground in front of Jefferson's statue asking that all candles be placed on the plastic so as to avoid damaging the statue.  Practicality in the midst of shock.  The people of Charlottesville seemed determinedly friendly.  Shopkeepers all said hello when we entered, passersby on the street nodded or said hello, people held doors open for each other, and even when boarding a bus, passengers said hello to each other.  We stayed at the 200 South Street Inn, which I can highly recommend.  The owner said his business is down about 20% and said that other businesses have had it worse. It's a beautiful little college town that was totally unprepared for what descended on them, and they are still reeling from it. 

All in all it was a great trip, although my head is swimming with all the history!!  It was a good time of year to go as there were few crowds anywhere we went, which made for a much nicer experience. 

We have visitors arriving from N. Dakota tomorrow, so more history is on tap for me - Ft. Frederick, Antietam, Gettysburg, and Mount Vernon are all on the schedule for next week!

   


Offline imref

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Re: "Holiday Road" - The Official Vacation Thread
« Reply #1220: September 27, 2017, 11:30:58 AM »
If you are ever in the area again put the Mariners museum in Newport News on your list. 

Offline tomterp

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Re: "Holiday Road" - The Official Vacation Thread
« Reply #1221: September 27, 2017, 11:54:43 AM »

The next day we went back in time to Jamestown, circa 1607-1699.  Visiting Jamestown is interesting as there are two places to see.  Historic Jamestown is an NPS site located at the actual site of the settlement, and is now an active archeological dig.  There's a museum there of artifacts they've discovered.  There's also "Jamestown Settlement" which is a few minutes away, and is a re-creation of the Jamestown settlement - basically a fake version of the real thing down the road.  Jamestown settlement also has an extensive museum tracing the history of Jamestown, from the first landing in 1607 all the way up to 1699 when the capital was moved to Williamsburg.  The museum details the clashes with the Powhatan natives, the role of Pocahontas, the actions of Capt. John Smith, and how Jamestown was the place where the first slaves were brought to the English settlements in 1619.  We went to Jamestown Settlement first, which worked out well, as when we went to the real Historic Jamestown, we already had a lot of background knowledge to appreciate what we were seeing.


Thanks WJ.  My USGS friend tells me they are excavating as fast as they can due to rising water levels that will consume the area in just a few decades.

Offline mitlen

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Re: "Holiday Road" - The Official Vacation Thread
« Reply #1222: September 27, 2017, 12:03:29 PM »
Thanks WJ.    May have already done this but yunz may check the local historical/genealogical society in Goochland CO.    I was genealogically scroungin' 15 or so years ago and stopped by the PG County society.    So happened, they had plot of all the "farms" in what is now PG County from the late 1600s.

Offline Count Walewski

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Re: "Holiday Road" - The Official Vacation Thread
« Reply #1223: September 27, 2017, 01:09:49 PM »
Just got back from a history trip to the "Historic Triangle"- Williamsburg, Jamestown, Yorktown.  After 3 days there we headed to Goochland County where hubby's Huguenot ancestors settled after arriving in Jamestown in 1700, and even found the approximate location of their land grant (a highway runs through it now).  From Goochland we went to Charlottesville for a visit to Monticello and the iconic UVA Rotunda.

I was very impressed with the Historic Triangle.  I hadn't visited Williamsburg since I was a kid, and of course at that time did not really appreciate it.  For those who might not remember, the timeframe recreated is the 1770's, just prior to the Revolutionary War, as residents of the time grapple with the issue of whether they want independence from Britain or not.  While sometimes a bit on the Disney side of cleaned-up history, it seemed to be that they are beginning to grapple with the totality of history, including slavery and the uncomfortable fact that many residents were Royalists.  We took various tours and found all the guides to be enthusiastic and knowledgeable.  The various craftspeople doing demos - wigmaker, blacksmith, weaver, shoemaker, tinsmith, etc. - were all passionate about what they did, and conveyed that passion to us.  We stayed at one of the official hotels - the Williamsburg Woodlands.  It was heavy on tour groups and people with kids, but the staff were friendly and helpful, and a full breakfast buffet is included in your rate. 

The next day we went back in time to Jamestown, circa 1607-1699.  Visiting Jamestown is interesting as there are two places to see.  Historic Jamestown is an NPS site located at the actual site of the settlement, and is now an active archeological dig.  There's a museum there of artifacts they've discovered.  There's also "Jamestown Settlement" which is a few minutes away, and is a re-creation of the Jamestown settlement - basically a fake version of the real thing down the road.  Jamestown settlement also has an extensive museum tracing the history of Jamestown, from the first landing in 1607 all the way up to 1699 when the capital was moved to Williamsburg.  The museum details the clashes with the Powhatan natives, the role of Pocahontas, the actions of Capt. John Smith, and how Jamestown was the place where the first slaves were brought to the English settlements in 1619.  We went to Jamestown Settlement first, which worked out well, as when we went to the real Historic Jamestown, we already had a lot of background knowledge to appreciate what we were seeing.

Then we went forward in time to 1781 to Yorktown, where Britain's Cornwallis surrendered to George Washington after the Siege of Yorktown.  Jamestown, Cornwallis, and the battle there were things I'd learned about in school decades ago and had pretty much forgotten, so it was nice to return there as a grown up to get a much better understanding of the significance of Yorktown.  We only had time for half a day at Yorktown, and I wish we'd allowed more time.  There's a brand new visitor center that just opened in April 2017, and like Jamestown, has an extensive museum tracing the origins of the Revolutionary War through the war itself and the aftermath.  There are also outdoor exhibits, like the recreation of a battlefield campground, but we didn't get to see nearly as much of that as we liked.

We took a short detour to Goochland County, where hubby had an appointment to visit the Huguenot Library to do some genealogical research. He managed to pick up a few tidbits, including that a couple of ancestors fought in the Revolutionary War.  (As opposed to my ancestors in New England who were apparently staunch Loyalists, as they fled to Canada immediately after the American victory and didn't return for over 100 years.) On our way to Charlottesville, we stopped at one of the numerous wineries in the area for a tasting, strictly for research purposes, of course.   :lol:

Monticello of course was magnificent.  It was Jefferson's masterpiece, and a place he'd created for himself and hoped could be passed down to his children and grandchildren. Everyplace you looked, there was some small incredible detail that just added to the wonder of the place. I loved it.  It brought home to me how brilliant Jefferson was as a scientist and intellectual, while at the same time how incredibly impractical and shortsighted he was financially.  I hadn't realized that he died over $100,000 in debt, which required his family to sell Monticello and everything in it just to pay off the debts - so much for creating a masterpiece to pass down to family.  As with the other places we'd been, the guides and materials present a much more nuanced view of Jefferson than the one-dimensional rah-rah version that was a standard part of history studies when I was in school, and with that he became much more of a real person.  The Monticello society is still grappling with some of the history, especially slavery and the Sally Hemings history, and any internal struggles Jefferson may have had.  But it seems that they are trying more than they used to, and are doing more research into the lives of the enslaved individuals.  But in my opinion, Mount Vernon is much further along in the process of acknowledging of how enslaved people were an essential part of the estate's history, and in exploring Washington's own moral grappling with the matter.   

Charlottesville is still in shock from recent events.  The spot where that beautiful young woman was murdered still has flowers, and the walls of the buildings facing the site have been covered with chalked heartfelt expressions of love for her and expressions of love trumping hate.  Local shops display small signs with two simple graphics - one with "C'ville" written on a heart, and the other that simply says "Heather" with a small heart next to it.  The Confederate statues are still covered, and at the site of that horrifying torchlit rally at the Rotunda on UVA's campus, officials have placed a piece of hard plastic on the ground in front of Jefferson's statue asking that all candles be placed on the plastic so as to avoid damaging the statue.  Practicality in the midst of shock.  The people of Charlottesville seemed determinedly friendly.  Shopkeepers all said hello when we entered, passersby on the street nodded or said hello, people held doors open for each other, and even when boarding a bus, passengers said hello to each other.  We stayed at the 200 South Street Inn, which I can highly recommend.  The owner said his business is down about 20% and said that other businesses have had it worse. It's a beautiful little college town that was totally unprepared for what descended on them, and they are still reeling from it. 

All in all it was a great trip, although my head is swimming with all the history!!  It was a good time of year to go as there were few crowds anywhere we went, which made for a much nicer experience. 

We have visitors arriving from N. Dakota tomorrow, so more history is on tap for me - Ft. Frederick, Antietam, Gettysburg, and Mount Vernon are all on the schedule for next week!

Thanks for the writeup - I have been planning a trip to Yorktown and Jamestown for years and put if off a bunch of times. I know that as you drive from Richmond to the peninsula you have a lot of historic old plantations that can be toured, including the birthplace of William Henry Harrison and the plantation owned by John Tyler. Did you visit any of those?

Offline wj73

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Re: "Holiday Road" - The Official Vacation Thread
« Reply #1224: September 27, 2017, 04:29:52 PM »
Thanks for the writeup - I have been planning a trip to Yorktown and Jamestown for years and put if off a bunch of times. I know that as you drive from Richmond to the peninsula you have a lot of historic old plantations that can be toured, including the birthplace of William Henry Harrison and the plantation owned by John Tyler. Did you visit any of those?

Nope, no time to do much more than we did, and we could have spent another day in each place had we wanted.  There was so much more we could have seen - James Monroe's estate is next to Monticello, and James Madison's Montpelier estate is only about 30 miles away, so you could get in a lot of history in a short period of time.  Plus there were lots and lots of wineries to check out!   :glug: