Author Topic: Nats and the 2012 Non-Waiver Trade deadline watch  (Read 27582 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Kentucky_National

  • Posts: 4594
  • BANG ZOOM
    • My Twitter
Would Dexter Fowler be available?

Offline BrandonK

  • Posts: 479
Would Dexter Fowler be available?

I'd say he's more available than CarGo.

Would love CarGo, but they did just sign him to an extension.

Span + Lirano, hmmm, what would it take? 

Offline Kentucky_National

  • Posts: 4594
  • BANG ZOOM
    • My Twitter
I'd say he's more available than CarGo.

Would love CarGo, but they did just sign him to an extension.

Span + Lirano, hmmm, what would it take? 

I'd love Fowler. He is having a great year, and has a good OBP. Although his away average is .209 so that's a bit concerning.

Denard Span hits .216 away from Target Field though, so if we're taking that into account I'd honestly rather have Fowler probably.

Offline UMDNats

  • Posts: 11629
White whale, bro.

Hits for average, great OBP, plays fantastic defense in center.

He's a solid player, but his 104 OPS+ and concussion history doesn't wet my whistle and acquiring him seems to require an overpay.

Offline Kentucky_National

  • Posts: 4594
  • BANG ZOOM
    • My Twitter
What about Ben Revere from the Twins...guy is hitting .330+ this season, has a great defense, and just plays the game the way its supposed to be played. He's young, and probably a little easier to get than Span.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 17392
  • Platoon - not just a movie, a baseball obsession
Not sure Revere is easier to get than Span.  They are both regulars, similar players,  and Revere is a cheaper option.  Odd that Span hits well in Target because that is a notoriously bad park for offense. 

Offline LostYudite

  • Posts: 758
  • Naaaa'aah-titude
He's a solid player, but his 104 OPS+ and concussion history doesn't wet my whistle and acquiring him seems to require an overpay.

His low OPS+ is basically a function of the fact that he's a slappy singles hitter.  His slugging comes from speed, not power - think a guy who legs doubles into triples and singles into doubles.  He's got basically zero power.  That's not his game - WAR loves him, mostly because UZR has loved him.  Even that, though I think overrates his 2011.  I'm fundamentally not sure how much better he really is from a Nyjer Morgan type.

I've cooled on Span - he's not that young and has essentially zero projectability left. We've got guys in the system right now (Brown, Goodwin, Perez, Taylor) all of whom could be Span or better and I don't know where you put Morse/Werth if you bring in Span until you resolve the 1b situation.

Offline UMDNats

  • Posts: 11629
His low OPS+ is basically a function of the fact that he's a slappy singles hitter.  His slugging comes from speed, not power - think a guy who legs doubles into triples and singles into doubles.  He's got basically zero power.  That's not his game - WAR loves him, mostly because UZR has loved him.  Even that, though I think overrates his 2011.  I'm fundamentally not sure how much better he really is from a Nyjer Morgan type.

I've cooled on Span - he's not that young and has essentially zero projectability left. We've got guys in the system right now (Brown, Goodwin, Perez, Taylor) all of whom could be Span or better and I don't know where you put Morse/Werth if you bring in Span until you resolve the 1b situation.


Agreed.

Offline hammondsnats

  • Posts: 37347
  • LAC 8)
Span is 28 years old, I wouldn't call that old. 

And I'd rather have Upton, but it seems like Span is the most available CF on the market and he's sure as hell better than what we have.

Part of me wishes that Espinosa/Lombardozzi would just run away with that leadoff position and kick ass, while Harper shows he can man CF ... so we can just play Moore out there until Werth gets back.  The other part of me would like to upgrade with someone who has proven he can be a solid regular out there.

Offline LostYudite

  • Posts: 758
  • Naaaa'aah-titude
Not old, but in his prime right now - I'm more interested in Revere and Fowler, because they're 24 and 26.  If we're going to have to overpay for that talent set, I'd prefer to buy a little projectability and maybe luck into a poor man's Granderson where you get a later burst of power.

Span's definitely available, but I don't necessarily see that as a plus, unless it means we can get him cheap.  And I'm not really sure that he's better in 2013 or 2014 than Brown, Taylor, Perez, etc.  Or that he's so much better that it's worth paying what it'll take to get him.  To me, you've got to figure out what you're doing at 1b before you know if you're still hunting the white whale.

And I agree about Lombo/Espi.  I also wish that we'd find a way to pry Starlin Castro away from the Cubs.  I think we're actually better off looking at Harper as the 2012/13 CF and finding leadoff in the MI, which means our guys there don't really fit that mold, unless we're willing to trade Morse, Moore and/or LaRoche.

Offline Kevrock

  • Posts: 10969
CarGo would cost a fortune. He's a stud and signed through 2017 at a relatively nice contract.

Offline Kevrock

  • Posts: 10969
You might wanna take a look at CarGo's home/away splits before trading. Coors is giving him a ton of love

Interesting.


Online HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 14726
If he could be had on the cheap, slappy high obp with good center defense would be nice for now. Werth coming back would complicate things, but once you get to next year, there's going to be a serious crunch with Morse, Moore, and potentially LaRoche all like likely deserving to be starters as well as Corey Brown.

Offline houston-nat

  • Posts: 16016
In terms of rentals, how would Carlos Quentin do? Strict platoon of Lombo/Danny at second, put Quentin in left. The problem is that when Werth comes back from the DL, you have no place for Michael Morse, and even before that no place for Tyler Moore.

What's hard to upgrade about our offense is that each individual position is totally OK... just not great. The only giant improvements to be made are over Flores and Espinosa, but we have Lombo in-house already. And we need a bench bat, which Chad Tracy seemed to be for a while there. It's frustrating that there's no obvious place where you can point and say "this really sucks and replacing this guy would add 2-3 wins, easily." Instead we upgrade a position like LF and then suddenly we have a logjam of guys who are just barely good enough.

Online HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 14726
I wonder if LaRoche + a prospect could be packaged for a big upgrade at first or left

Offline LostYudite

  • Posts: 758
  • Naaaa'aah-titude
Interesting.

That's why I don't think you can get CarGo, much as I'd love to.  You have to pay in trade like he's an MVP, but he won't be that for your team - he'll be good, maybe even great, but not as great as at Coors.  It was the same issue with Matt Holliday back when - he's been good in StL, even very good.  But he hasn't been 1.000 OPS good.

Offline LostYudite

  • Posts: 758
  • Naaaa'aah-titude
What's hard to upgrade about our offense is that each individual position is totally OK... just not great. The only giant improvements to be made are over Flores and Espinosa, but we have Lombo in-house already. Instead we upgrade a position like LF and then suddenly we have a logjam of guys who are just barely good enough.

This is exactly what I think the problem is.  We've got a lot of "meh" offensive pieces.  Ramos is the starter next year, so Flores is adequate for now as a backup, Espinosa has been bad, but not terrible and has enough upside that you might think that he's better than he's shown.  Any marginal move (like Span) creates piles of guys who are MLB regular or just slightly below.

Which is why I think we're ripe for a big move trade - we can package a couple of "good but not great" guys and go after one really good one.  Sort of like the Gio deal.

Offline Tokeydog

  • Posts: 1166
  • I like beer!
Which is why I think we're ripe for a big move trade - we can package a couple of "good but not great" guys and go after one really good one.  Sort of like the Gio deal.

My only concern would be what it would do to the clubhouse.  Right now the team has a really good vibe with each other and moving a highly liked player could cause some sad feelings.  Personally, it is a business and they are professionals so the should be able to get over it.


Offline Kevrock

  • Posts: 10969
Nice posts, Houston, Yudite, Tokey.

My only concern would be what it would do to the clubhouse.  Right now the team has a really good vibe with each other and moving a highly liked player could cause some sad feelings. 

I know that "veteran presence" and "good in the clubhouse" comments get scoffed at on here, and often for good reason, but I've had this on my mind lately as well.

Offline nobleisthyname

  • Posts: 2103
No no no to CarGo or Fowler. Their success is entirely attributable to their park. Their away splits are average to awful. They are both liabilities in the field and despite Fowler's plus speed he never learned how to steal a base (though he is doing better this season).

Offline Minty Fresh

  • Posts: 16400
  • M. V. P.
Jacoby Ellsbury, please.   :mg:

Offline comish4lif

  • Posts: 2548
  • Too Stressed to care.
CarGo would cost a fortune. He's a stud and signed through 2017 at a relatively nice contract.

Agreed, not sure why the Rockies would sign him through 2017 and then turn around and deal him 2 years later.

Offline cmdterps44

  • Posts: 15531
  • Future
Why do people want to trade LaRoche? He's our best guy on offense right now.

Online HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 14726
Why do people want to trade LaRoche? He's our best guy on offense right now.

because he may be the only position we're not locked into long term either by virtue of contract or how the team views the player.

Third and Right are set due to contracts for a very long time

Harper is set at either center or left for a very long time (and even if you slide him to left, you displace Morse and Moore)

second, short and catcher are all manned by young players the FO seems to like and view long term.

That leaves first and left, I think Morse/Moore is less likely to get traded than LaRoche, but that's just me

Offline wpa2629

  • Posts: 16127
  • No Trade Clause
Right but if you move LaRoche what kind of bat could you realistically get for him that would be better?