Author Topic: If Davey (and Rizzo) Are So Smart, How Come We’re All Smarter?  (Read 1341 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 14431

The sarcasm regarding this is getting beyond old, and you've only been doing it a couple days. But I'll make a joint response to you and mmzznnxx. First, for mm, yeah, Wang pitched for the Yankees and had their support. He pitches for another team, he doesn't have that level of success. But I watched him pitch for NY at times, and for us even. Even with us, he's shown flashes of what he had for a season in NY. And that is incredibly above average control and the rarest of the rare, mastery of his repertoire. And you know, that's something stats don't show, but like picturesography, you know it when you see it. And I've seen it with Wang. Now? Yeah, he blows monkey chunks.

But first of all, there's the issue of reputation. Wang has one, Detwiler doesn't, bottom line. Given the same quality stuff, the reputation means one player gets more chances than another. Fair? No. But that's life. But secondly, Detwiler has never shown that genuine mastery. He's just been consistent, and at this point, I'd say consistently above average. But even so, the reason we are giving Wang all the chances in the world, and more importantly, the reason we should? Even if it's a 20% chance Wang somehow finds what he once had, he's shown he does have th ability to do it. If he could regain what he's had for a season, he's a 20+ game winner. Detwiler, at best, is going to be consistent, but never win 20 games. So the 1 in 5 chance of a 20+ game winner, plus reputation, means they should give Wang extra chances and a weighted consideration in comparison to Detwiler. Because if, and at this chance it's highly unlikely, but if Wang gets back what he has had, then he blows Detwiler out of the water. Fair? Maybe, maybe not. But there is logic to continuing to give Wang a shot over Detwiler, despite the realities of their 2012 performances.




Maybe we can try to sign Palmer out of the masn booth, he has all the attributes you praise Wang for, and apparently the fact that Wang hasn't been good since 2007 is meaningless, so what's a few more years? By the way, Wang has never been a 20+ game winner, so the odds of him becoming that now well past his prime are probably closer to negligible than 1 in 5

Offline Coladar

  • Posts: 2808



Maybe we can try to sign Palmer out of the masn booth, he has all the attributes you praise Wang for, and apparently the fact that Wang hasn't been good since 2007 is meaningless, so what's a few more years? By the way, Wang has never been a 20+ game winner, so the odds of him becoming that now well past his prime are probably closer to negligible than 1 in 5

Oh, I know he's never been a 20 game winner, my point is that even in NY, he had this same inconsistent BS. What I'm saying is, and it's not going to happen, but if by some miracle Wang figures it out, regains top form, and is consistent? He's *easily* a 20 game winner. The problem is he's never been consistent, and now, he's consistently bad. But he has shown, and whether it's mental or physical, who knows, but when everything is perfect, he has command and mastery that I've only seen very rarely. But even when he won 19 games, he showed that less often than not, so clearly the odds he figures it out are miniscule.

Online HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 14431
I think the only difference between Wang and a guy like Lackey who we watched fade is that Wang was injured for so long that noone got to see him fade, so people still reference 2007 when talking about him

Offline Coladar

  • Posts: 2808
I think the only difference between Wang and a guy like Lackey who we watched fade is that Wang was injured for so long that noone got to see him fade, so people still reference 2007 when talking about him


I think that's probably likely, and as I say, even in 07 he showed a moderate level of inconsistency as far as I recall. He's never been consistently at his best, even for just a season. But likewise, Detwiler has never and almost certainly never will have what Wang had, and furthermore, we've spent what, two plus seasons on Wang now? You definitely have to get why they are still going with him, even though it's almost certainly a bad idea in comparison to Detwiler.

Online Nathan

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 10559
  • Wow. Such warnings. Very baseball. Moderator Doge.
I'd :lmao: at Nathan trying to dive out of the way of a Harper liner.

That's cold, bro :|

Offline shoeshineboy

  • Posts: 7322
  • Walks Kill!! Walks Kill! Walks Kill!!!!
The sarcasm regarding this is getting beyond old, and you've only been doing it a couple days. But I'll make a joint response to you and mmzznnxx. First, for mm, yeah, Wang pitched for the Yankees and had their support. He pitches for another team, he doesn't have that level of success. But I watched him pitch for NY at times, and for us even. Even with us, he's shown flashes of what he had for a season in NY. And that is incredibly above average control and the rarest of the rare, mastery of his repertoire. And you know, that's something stats don't show, but like picturesography, you know it when you see it. And I've seen it with Wang. Now? Yeah, he blows monkey chunks.

But first of all, there's the issue of reputation. Wang has one, Detwiler doesn't, bottom line. Given the same quality stuff, the reputation means one player gets more chances than another. Fair? No. But that's life. But secondly, Detwiler has never shown that genuine mastery. He's just been consistent, and at this point, I'd say consistently above average. But even so, the reason we are giving Wang all the chances in the world, and more importantly, the reason we should? Even if it's a 20% chance Wang somehow finds what he once had, he's shown he does have th ability to do it. If he could regain what he's had for a season, he's a 20+ game winner. Detwiler, at best, is going to be consistent, but never win 20 games. So the 1 in 5 chance of a 20+ game winner, plus reputation, means they should give Wang extra chances and a weighted consideration in comparison to Detwiler. Because if, and at this chance it's highly unlikely, but if Wang gets back what he has had, then he blows Detwiler out of the water. Fair? Maybe, maybe not. But there is logic to continuing to give Wang a shot over Detwiler, despite the realities of their 2012 performances.

These are important points. The problem with Detwiler is that he hasn't made their decision as difficult as he could have. If Harper had struggled over his first couple weeks, he may not have been kept up. Instead, he made it impossible for them to send him back down. If Detwiler had shown consistency, it would make it tougher. They obviously wanted Detwiler to succeed for a lot of obvious reasons. They demoted Lannan to give him a chance. He has shown some real control problems out of the pen. Is it possible that Detwiler would have ultimately done better than Wang if he had been given the starts? Very much so, but he didn't make that easy bet. And he hasn't done himself favors coming in and throwing a half dozen balls in a row. Still, when he is doing well, he at least offers a long relief option.

With Wang, ideally, he would have been able to have an extended stint of rehab, but that is just not an option. So that is essentially happening at the big league level. We saw how he could be effective when his stuff was working last season, and the reputation goes a long way given that he has shown that he can hit the higher velocities.

The guy is a sinker ball, ground ball pitcher. Any mechanics issues are going to put him in a situation to get tagged, which is what we see. They are obviously in love with his potential, and must think that he is at least close to form with some more work or tinkering. If he was unable to survive a couple of innings at a time and struggling to top out in the high 80s, they would likely have already moved him to the pen or put him on the DL. But they have a lot invested in a guy who actually knows how to pitch and appears to have at least recovered physically. He just hasn't had the extended time to get into game form. I wouldn't disagree with putting him in the pen or trying something else, because he is struggling right now. But it is clear why they are trying to make it work.

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

  • Posts: 13883
  • Lerners = Bluth family
Detwiler and Wang are both hot garbage. Call Lannan back up or give Rosenbaum a shot.

Offline Tyler Durden

  • Posts: 7971
  • Leprechaun
It's always awesome when someone takes the time to write a reasoned, well-though out, three paragraph post and then the immediately following post is, 'so and so is garbage.'  Not that I don't agree that 'so and so is garbage.'  Just think it's funny.