Author Topic: What's wrong with Ryan Zimmerman?  (Read 13347 times)

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Re: What's wrong with Ryan Zimmerman?
« Reply #125: June 15, 2012, 10:39:10 PM »
He will definitely 'come around'. This is not Ryan Zimmerman's ceiling we're seeing.

However, he's never going to be a superstar that people think or thought he would be. He's not. That's not who he is. He's a 3B who will be productive to the tune of 20 HR/80 RBI/.280 when he's going well and an elite defender at third. A team leader. I don't think he's necessarily in the right role casted as a three hole hitter either. He is more like a five.

Tamper your expectations. Don't expect the world. He's maybe got a .300 season or so in him still but he is not a perennial stud offensive player by any means. He's just not. Same thing with a guy who went a few slots after him in his draft class Jay Bruce.

Then why did we sign him to a long term deal? Sorry, but he's not producing at all right now. This isn't a slump. This is just bad.

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: What's wrong with Ryan Zimmerman?
« Reply #126: June 15, 2012, 10:45:29 PM »
Then why did we sign him to a long term deal?

because people on this board kept nagging about how we had to.

Offline Kevrock

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Re: What's wrong with Ryan Zimmerman?
« Reply #127: June 15, 2012, 10:46:15 PM »
Zimmerman is not a .280 20 HR 80 RBI guy. He's better and he's been better. He'll come around, this year or next year.

Offline BH34Natural

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Re: What's wrong with Ryan Zimmerman?
« Reply #128: June 15, 2012, 10:48:46 PM »
Zimmerman is not a .280 20 HR 80 RBI guy. He's better and he's been better. He'll come around, this year or next year.


Um, yes he is.

He's bettered that twice in his career years or 'peaks' but his 162 game averages are right in line with who I am telling you that he is.

He doesn't play and won't play in 162 games anymore and he won't. He is exactly who I said he is in a good year. It's time to accept that.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/z/zimmery01.shtml

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Re: What's wrong with Ryan Zimmerman?
« Reply #129: June 15, 2012, 10:52:08 PM »
He needs to be dropped in the lineup. Maybe he's putting too much pressure on himself. But right now, he's killing us. He came up with runners in scoring position and we were all just hoping he didn't GIDP.

Bat him sixth. Move Morse up to the three hole. It isn't perfect, but it will do for now.

Offline Kevrock

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Re: What's wrong with Ryan Zimmerman?
« Reply #130: June 15, 2012, 10:57:28 PM »
Um, yes he is.

He's bettered that twice in his career years or 'peaks' but his 162 game averages are right in line with who I am telling you that he is.

He doesn't play and won't play in 162 games anymore and he won't. He is exactly who I said he is in a good year. It's time to accept that.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/z/zimmery01.shtml


His healthy years exceed the stats that you posted. He doesn't have a healthy year where he put up numbers as poor as what you posted.

I guess we'll wait and see if he has another healthy year in his career. That was the gamble made by the Nats, and that's why we got him at such an extreme discount.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-nationals-wisely-extend-ryan-zimmerman

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Re: What's wrong with Ryan Zimmerman?
« Reply #131: June 15, 2012, 11:02:17 PM »
But how many "healthy" years are we going to get from him is the question.  This doesn't appear to be one of them.

Offline Kevrock

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Re: What's wrong with Ryan Zimmerman?
« Reply #132: June 15, 2012, 11:07:15 PM »
That's the question, isn't it? But he's not .280 / 20 / 80 RBI guy "when things he's going well", like BH34 said.

This board had the same debate about Zim not being a 3 hitter in 2008. Zim answered with his 2009 and 2010 seasons, which is what he can do "when he's going well".

I'd of course agree that some years he would be better suited for another spot in the lineup as Harper grows and some of the supporting cast steps up.

Also, he's 27. So hopefully he has a few more 2009/2010s in him.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: What's wrong with Ryan Zimmerman?
« Reply #133: June 15, 2012, 11:17:21 PM »
Last year, it took him about a month or so to get going after he came back from his injury.  I suspect he comes back quick because the team is better with an 80% RZ than without. 

Offline nobleisthyname

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Re: What's wrong with Ryan Zimmerman?
« Reply #134: June 15, 2012, 11:39:07 PM »
Remember David Wright. This is the first time he's been healthy in years and he's beasting. Zimmerman's only 27, only just entering his prime. If he can get healthy we can still get amazing production from him. However, the size of that "if" is the gamble.

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Re: What's wrong with Ryan Zimmerman?
« Reply #135: June 15, 2012, 11:47:40 PM »
Last year, it took him about a month or so to get going after he came back from his injury.  I suspect he comes back quick because the team is better with an 80% RZ than without. 

Are you sure? And I don't even think he's 80%. Certainly not at the plate.

Remember David Wright. This is the first time he's been healthy in years and he's beasting. Zimmerman's only 27, only just entering his prime. If he can get healthy we can still get amazing production from him. However, the size of that "if" is the gamble.
If Zim was hitting like Wright last year, I'd be ecstatic. And Wright has ALWAYS been a better hitter than Zimmerman.

Offline nobleisthyname

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Re: What's wrong with Ryan Zimmerman?
« Reply #136: June 15, 2012, 11:48:54 PM »
Are you sure? And I don't even think he's 80%. Certainly not at the plate.

He's shown flashes of coming around. He had one solid hit today to go with two that he just missed hitting out.

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Re: What's wrong with Ryan Zimmerman?
« Reply #137: June 15, 2012, 11:49:35 PM »
He's shown flashes of coming around. He had one solid hit today to go with two that he just missed hitting out.

He's been just missing hitting them out for about a month.

Move him down in the order. Stop having  him kill us with RISP.

Offline nobleisthyname

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Re: What's wrong with Ryan Zimmerman?
« Reply #138: June 15, 2012, 11:57:10 PM »
I don't disagree with moving him down in the order. I just have faith he'll still come around. We still have 2/3rds of the season left after all.

Offline nobleisthyname

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Re: What's wrong with Ryan Zimmerman?
« Reply #139: June 16, 2012, 12:19:18 AM »
If Zim was hitting like Wright last year, I'd be ecstatic. And Wright has ALWAYS been a better hitter than Zimmerman.

'09-10 Zimmerman is just as good or better than all but '07 David Wright (not counting this season yet since it's still so young).

It's generally agreed that when healthy, Ryan Zimmerman is the NL clone of Evan Longoria. That's pretty high praise since the latter is supposed to be the best 3B in all of baseball.

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Re: What's wrong with Ryan Zimmerman?
« Reply #140: June 16, 2012, 12:32:56 AM »
'09-10 Zimmerman is just as good or better than all but '07 David Wright (not counting this season yet since it's still so young).

It's generally agreed that when healthy, Ryan Zimmerman is the NL clone of Evan Longoria. That's pretty high praise since the latter is supposed to be the best 3B in all of baseball.

Uh ... 2005-2008 Wright was better than any season Zim has ever had. From 2006-2009, Wright was the best third baseman in baseball. Even using Fangraphs WAR calculator that puts a heavy emphasis on defense. Wright, A-Rod and Chipped Jones were the top 3 third basemen in baseball.


Offline nobleisthyname

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Re: What's wrong with Ryan Zimmerman?
« Reply #141: June 16, 2012, 12:44:32 AM »
David Wright:
2005:  6.2 WAR
2006:  5.2 WAR
2007:  8.9 WAR
2008:  7.1 WAR
2009:  3.6 WAR
2010:  4.0 WAR

Ryan Zimmerman:
2006: 4.4 WAR
2007: 5.3 WAR
2009: 7.3 WAR
2010: 7.2 WAR

These represent all the seasons Wright and Zimmerman played all the way through.

As you can see, except for the 2007 outlier (where he should have won the MVP), Zimmerman has been just as good or better than Wright. In fact, if you remove that one season Zimmerman actually has only 1.9 WAR less in fewer seasons (24.2 to 26.1).

It seems Zimmerman is underrated even by Nationals fans.

EDIT: I forgot 2008 was shortened by injury. I've adjusted the calculations

Offline Jordanz Meatballz

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Re: What's wrong with Ryan Zimmerman?
« Reply #142: June 16, 2012, 12:52:00 AM »
2012 and beyond production is more relevant.  Plus you cherry picked the years to make the numbers close.

I can't believe the team is doing so well with crap production from Zim, he should be in MVP consideration and instead he looks below replacement level.

Offline nobleisthyname

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Re: What's wrong with Ryan Zimmerman?
« Reply #143: June 16, 2012, 12:57:58 AM »
2012 and beyond production is more relevant.  Plus you cherry picked the years to make the numbers close.

I can't believe the team is doing so well with crap production from Zim, he should be in MVP consideration and instead he looks below replacement level.

I didn't cherry pick the years (anymore than I had already acknowledged at least). All of those years represent their full seasons of playing time. I already acknowledged that Wright's '07 was much better than any of Zim's years.

And absolutely 2012 and beyond is more relevant. That's what spawned the comparison in the first place. Wright is a player a lot thought was washed up due to injuries and is having an amazing season now that he's healthy. Considering Zimmerman is even younger I see no reason why he can't due the same.

Offline BH34Natural

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Re: What's wrong with Ryan Zimmerman?
« Reply #144: June 16, 2012, 12:59:50 AM »
They need to start hitting Harper third and Zim 2nd. It can't hurt anything. Zimmerman would get more fastballs. Let Morse hit clean-up and LaRoche 5th. So simple.

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Re: What's wrong with Ryan Zimmerman?
« Reply #145: June 16, 2012, 01:01:33 AM »
They need to start hitting Harper third and Zim 2nd. It can't hurt anything. Zimmerman would get more fastballs. Let Morse hit clean-up and LaRoche 5th. So simple.

Zim is getting plenty of good pitches. He isnt hitting drop him. Stop putting him in positions that are killing us.

Offline InsaneBoost

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Re: What's wrong with Ryan Zimmerman?
« Reply #146: June 16, 2012, 03:25:03 AM »
Zimmerman needs to be send to the minors until further notice, dude is trash right now and he's not helping the team at all. If his D was good then maybe there'd be a point, but suck suck suck is his name. Like I said awhile back, DO NOT RE-SIGN THIS MAN. This is why I said it. Such a slob.

Offline cmdterps44

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Re: What's wrong with Ryan Zimmerman?
« Reply #147: June 16, 2012, 04:21:51 AM »
I have a feeling 20 days from now people will be regretting ever doubting Zimmerman and Morse. Zimmerman is a streaky hitter. He always has a slow "month" and then will break out. If that's true, then he will break out within the next few series'. Morse will break out a series or two after. I mean, I'm judging that off of Morse's last April where he was absolutely terrible. I have a feeling he'll break out too.

Online monkeyhit

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Re: What's wrong with Ryan Zimmerman?
« Reply #148: June 16, 2012, 07:53:20 AM »
I have a feeling 20 days from now people will be regretting ever doubting Zimmerman and Morse. Zimmerman is a streaky hitter. He always has a slow "month" and then will break out. If that's true, then he will break out within the next few series'. Morse will break out a series or two after. I mean, I'm judging that off of Morse's last April where he was absolutely terrible. I have a feeling he'll break out too.

Hope you are right, and suspect you are, but he really does look like he's lost his power at the plate and seems stiff in the field.  Can you be old at 27?  Pretty unlikely.

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Re: What's wrong with Ryan Zimmerman?
« Reply #149: June 16, 2012, 08:01:10 AM »
I have a feeling 20 days from now people will be regretting ever doubting Zimmerman and Morse. Zimmerman is a streaky hitter. He always has a slow "month" and then will break out. If that's true, then he will break out within the next few series'. Morse will break out a series or two after. I mean, I'm judging that off of Morse's last April where he was absolutely terrible. I have a feeling he'll break out too.

It's been a month and a half. And he was coming off a shoulder injury.

I have a feeling that it is still an issue and he should have never come off the DL.