Poll

Should Detwiler (1.59 era) keep his rotation spot when Wang returns

Yes, he earned it
59 (93.7%)
No, Wang was really good in 2007
4 (6.3%)

Total Members Voted: 63

Author Topic: Should Detwiler (1.59 era) keep his rotation spot when Wang returns  (Read 1176 times)

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Offline Lintyfresh85

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I think the team is better off not messing with him and trying to stretch him to 7-8 innings, that role does sound fine for Jackson though

Jackson is a better pitcher than Detwiler, so...

I'll just politely say I disagree.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Sharp - I'll agree it is not clear that Det is better than Jackson.  I'm not sure he's better than Det, either, so I'll say that is a wash.  What I would say is that Det is better than Maya and Lannan and Gorzellany, and that it is probable that Wang is better than those guys, too (if he isn't, I agree, jettison him).  The inferior innings you would be limiting would be via the 5+ route, rather than the strict 5 man rotation. 

Sheehan assumes a 7 man bullpen with a 6 man rotation, with the standard closer, set-up, lefty and righty high leverage middle guys, second lefty, low leverage righty, and long guy or ROOGY.  What I'm suggesting is that Davey likes having a lefty and a righty who go multi-innings, and I think in Stammen and Detwiler we could do that.  These guys can pick up opposite-handed starters and finish games against lineups that are overloaded with same-handed hitters.  this rests short guys and can let you keep a 12 man staff.

The way I'd set up the staff would be - Stras. Gio, JZ, E-Jax, and CMW in the rotation, Det and Stammen as long guys/ spot starters, Storen, H-Rod, Clip, Burnett, and Lidge when healthy, with Mattheus the first fill in for injuries and Gorz the second. 12 man staff.

Offline Kevrock

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Can you link me to an article?  I can't find anything except stuff that reaffirms what I'd remembered, which is that there wasn't clear evidence for four vs. five man rotations (but there may be some for three).


Umm, I'm looking but I can only find Little League guidelines. I know the UVA pitching coach (Kuhn) teaches 72 hours rest for 72 pitches. That doesn't contradict the follow-up article to the one you posted, which I personally found more interesting:

Quote
But this also explains why working on three days' rest may not be any more dangerous than working on four days' rest, because there is no evidence - absolutely none - that a pitcher needs a fourth day off to reach a maximum state of rest. I've searched the medical literature for any study that measures a pitchers' resting strength following a start, and such a study doesn't exist. No one has gotten around to measuring whether, to return to full strength, a starting pitcher ought to rest his arm for 3 days, or for 3 hours, or for 3 weeks. The move to a five-man rotation is simply not based on hard medical evidence.


http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1605

He says that throwing more frequently but with lower pitch counts is the way to go. Of course, this was over a decade ago...

Offline HalfSmokes

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Jackson is a better pitcher than Detwiler, so...

I'll just politely say I disagree.

not this year, as far as career, detwiler has a lower career era and whip

Offline sportsfan882

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Quote
Hagerstown Suns ‏ @HagerstownSuns
REHAB ALERT! Nationals' pitcher CHIEN-MING WANG will rehab start with the Suns TONIGHT at Municipal Stadium vs. the Rome Braves at 7:05!

Offline Obed_Marsh

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The way this poll was written, I just had to vote for Wang. Really I don't care so liong as we continue to get similar results. Yes, yes, I recognize Det will come back to earth at some point.

Online welch

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I suggested a six-man rotation partly as whimsy, and part seriously: IF Wang returns in the same form he had reached in ST, then the Nats have:

1. Strassburg

2. Gio

3. Jordan Z

4. Detwiler

5. Jackson

6. Wang

...where none of the 4, 5, or 6 pitchers are notably better than the others, except that Detwiler is younger, Wang was terrific before the shoulder injury, and Jackson has been up and down. Throw in Strassburg's limit, which takes him to some time in August, and consider that Lannan was number two starter last season.

- At the least, do not shelve Detwiler, or make him the long relief guy

- Teams got along with four starters until recently, so why is five a magic number?

Offline Lintyfresh85

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not this year, as far as career, detwiler has a lower career era and whip

Going forward, which pitcher do you want more.

Pitcher A

8.24 K/9
2.27 BB/9
3.63 K/BB
0.57 HR/9
.281 BABIP (league average .286)
2.81 FIP

or

Pitcher B

6.67 K/9
2.86 BB/9
2.33 K/BB
0.64 HR/9
.215 BABIP (league average .286)
3.35 FIP

Offline HalfSmokes

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going forward, i'll take the guy with the 1.59 era and sub 1 whip (especially if he's the guy more likely to be a part of the team going forward)

Offline Lintyfresh85

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going forward, i'll take the guy with the 1.59 era and sub 1 whip (especially if he's the guy more likely to be a part of the team going forward)

Well... lets make an avatar bet shall we?

From today forward, May 4, I'll take EJ to have a better ERA, and you take Detwiler. Winner collects at end of season. Sound good?

Offline sportsfan882

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This is stupid talking about Wang's numbers before his injuries, those mean NOTHING.

Let's look at his numbers after the injuries. Last year with Nats: 4.57 FIP, 3.61 K/9, 1.28 WHIP.

He's a borderline #5 pitcher. Ross and Edwin Jackson are #3-4 caliber starting pitchers. Wang isn't good enough to pitch in this rotation, last year's sure but not now.

Offline sportsfan882

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Well... lets make an avatar bet shall we?

From today forward, May 4, I'll take EJ to have a better ERA, and you take Detwiler. Winner collects at end of season. Sound good?
Not a fair bet, you are discounting the first month of the season where Detwiler clearly outpitched him. You should take overall season ending numbers.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Well... lets make an avatar bet shall we?

From today forward, May 4, I'll take EJ to have a better ERA, and you take Detwiler. Winner collects at end of season. Sound good?

I'll make the bet for season stats, or does april not count in the standings?

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Not a fair bet, you are discounting the first month of the season where Detwiler clearly outpitched him. You should take overall season ending numbers.

The numbers I just posted... they say Detwiler clearly out pitched EJ, really?

What I see, is that Detwiler has been extremely lucky when it comes to balls in play. Once he averages out, his ERA and WHIP will see a sharp increase unless he learns to start striking out hitters.

I think Detwiler has been great so far this year... but in my mind, he's not yet a quality starting pitcher, which I consider Edwin Jackson to be.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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I'll make the bet for season stats, or does april not count in the standings?

Deal.

Offline sportsfan882

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Odd, I thought you were a big Detwiler backer before, Linty?

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Odd, I thought you were a big Detwiler backer before, Linty?

No. I've never been a huge fan of Detwiler. I've definitely warmed to him being the #5 starter though.

I also think his BABIP is hiding a lot of deficiencies in his game.

Offline HalfSmokes

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No. I've never been a huge fan of Detwiler. I've definitely warmed to him being the #5 starter though.

I also think his BABIP is hiding a lot of deficiencies in his game.
Possibly, to me Jackson is kind of like HRod, there is good Jackson and awful Jackson

Offline Slateman

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No. I've never been a huge fan of Detwiler. I've definitely warmed to him being the #5 starter though.

I also think his BABIP is hiding a lot of deficiencies in his game.

Or he's been really difficult to get good contact on due to late movement on his stuff.

BABIP is such a flawed statistic for pitchers

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Or he's been really difficult to get good contact on due to late movement on his stuff.

BABIP is such a flawed statistic for pitchers

I guess we'll have to see.

Also, once again it seems people think my backing of EJ somehow means I don't like Detwiler. I want to assure everyone that is not the case. I just think going forward, EJ will prove to be the better pitcher.

Offline Baseball is Life

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Offline houston-nat

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Oh, no. Not again.

My all-time favorite "Not again" is Daffy Duck in that one cartoon where Bugs Bunny keeps convincing Elmer Fudd to shoot him.

Offline Baseball is Life

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not this year, as far as career, detwiler has a lower career era and whip

And Det has an incredible upside, team control, etc.

Offline Slateman

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My all-time favorite "Not again" is Daffy Duck in that one cartoon where Bugs Bunny keeps convincing Elmer Fudd to shoot him.

HOLY CRAP!!!! I REMEMBER THAT!!!!!

Offline Baseball is Life

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My all-time favorite "Not again" is Daffy Duck in that one cartoon where Bugs Bunny keeps convincing Elmer Fudd to shoot him.

Oh, so appropriate. Some people never learn. :doh: