Author Topic: Thoughts on Bud Selig  (Read 598 times)

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Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Thoughts on Bud Selig
« Reply #25: May 01, 2012, 05:15:50 PM »
IFA classes are never as rich in talent as the mlb draft.

they'll still get a high first rounder and another first rounder every year- that crop should get better every year as guys like Cole and Goodwin opt to go to school (or just accept slot lower in the draft)

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Thoughts on Bud Selig
« Reply #26: May 01, 2012, 05:20:19 PM »
Or go play football and water down the overall product.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Thoughts on Bud Selig
« Reply #27: May 01, 2012, 05:26:40 PM »
Some of them, yes, but I wonder how many kids that's actually a viable option for

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Thoughts on Bud Selig
« Reply #28: May 01, 2012, 06:29:38 PM »
Funny you'd say that in the Destin Hood thread without a shred of irony.

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Thoughts on Bud Selig
« Reply #29: May 01, 2012, 06:37:09 PM »
I could care less about pirates fans, if a city can't support a team with a payroll determined on the open market (as opposed to artificially in other sports), maybe that city isn't really a major league city anymore

 teams can allocate money in the mlb draft within a certain range (unlike the NBA) and they are also free to spend whatever they want on international players (unlike other sports where they are subject to the draft)

Lol only an idiot would think Pittsburgh doesn't support he Pirates. That city has every right to go all Montreal on the MLB and they still routinely get 30k at PNC for weekend games. The problem is the cheapass greedy owners; not the fans.


Offline cmdterps44

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Re: Thoughts on Bud Selig
« Reply #30: May 01, 2012, 06:41:48 PM »
Lol only an idiot would think Pittsburgh doesn't support he Pirates. That city has every right to go all Montreal on the MLB and they still routinely get 30k at PNC for weekend games. The problem is the cheapass greedy owners; not the fans.



Post 12121 ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Thoughts on Bud Selig
« Reply #31: May 01, 2012, 06:45:13 PM »
Lol only an idiot would think Pittsburgh doesn't support he Pirates. That city has every right to go all Montreal on the MLB and they still routinely get 30k at PNC for weekend games. The problem is the cheapass greedy owners; not the fans.



Maybe the people do, but the infrastructure to support a competitive payroll might not be there

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Thoughts on Bud Selig
« Reply #32: May 01, 2012, 06:53:06 PM »
Maybe the people do, but the infrastructure to support a competitive payroll might not be there

Total crock. Tell that to the NHL. I wonder if they still wish they'd moved to KC.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Thoughts on Bud Selig
« Reply #33: May 01, 2012, 07:02:31 PM »
Total crock. Tell that to the NHL. I wonder if they still wish they'd moved to KC.


a massive artificial salary cap helps- can Pittsburgh ever afford to go dollar for dollar with a major east or west coast city or Chicago or Houston or Dallas?

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Thoughts on Bud Selig
« Reply #34: May 01, 2012, 11:24:17 PM »
a massive artificial salary cap helps- can Pittsburgh ever afford to go dollar for dollar with a major east or west coast city or Chicago or Houston or Dallas?

Do you even get what you're saying?  If you believe this, it's just all the more reason to hate Bud Selig.  So he wants a league with a backwards revenue sharing system with no salary cap or floor, ergo a team/market like Pittsburgh just can't properly support a competitive team.  If that's the case, why didn't he just move the Pirates to Arizona in the 90's?  Did he just leave a team in Pittsburgh to be a doormat for everyone else in the league?

Sure, you could argue that he wanted to keep making money in Pittsburgh, but why should that (money-making) be the sole criterion for judging a commissioner?

Bud Selig has hurt the GAME.  In the 60's/70's/80's you never had these stretches where the Braves, Yankees, Red Sox, and Phillies of the world just kept winning division title after division title.  It's really freaking lame and predictable.  I mean, you had dynasties of course, but the game actually ran in cycles back then and you saw new blood after about 3 years or so.  That's because the game didn't have these stupid imbalances like it does today.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Thoughts on Bud Selig
« Reply #35: May 02, 2012, 08:21:16 AM »
So you want a system where salary is capped at a level the pirates can afford underpaying players and hamstringing other owners who want to win? If you're looking to the 70s and 80s, maybe free agency should just be elimanated?

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: Thoughts on Bud Selig
« Reply #36: May 02, 2012, 10:12:00 AM »
Selig is dealing with a difficult problem - how do you redistribute huge amounts of wealth to level the playing field somewhat without creating a salary cap that's so low it artificially restricts player salaries (which the players union would go crazy about).

But I think its arguable that they really haven't done much to affect the issue at all, they kind of just move the chips around the table. Revenue sharing is kind of toothless without forcing teams to spend that money on player salaries. Some teams like the Rays and the Pirates have routinely gotten enough in revenue sharing to cover their entire salary bases. Revenue sharing should not be designed to simply keep teams afloat or to allow teams to turn a profit - it's ludicrous that the Nats received revenue sharing (they won't under the new CBA) and turned profits.

Likewise, people get all upset over the new draft changes, but I really don't think it'll have much of an effect on the distribution of talent beyond leaching a few players out who would have signed for higher bonuses but now will choose to play other sports. (A) There will be a lessened incentive for players' agents to manipulate the draft by asking for sky-high bonuses and allowing their kids to move down the draft board to be signed by the Yankees or Red Sox for high first round money. Now, if you want a high first round bonus, you get drafted in the high first round, which keeps the best players with the worst-performing teams. (B) It's not like the rich teams weren't overspending in the draft as well. The Nationals were spending the most money in the draft because they had the first pick two straight years, but the Yankees and Red Sox also signed lots of players to overslot bonuses. Realistically, I think the changes are designed to fix a problem from a decade ago that no longer exists. Nearly all teams, large-market and small-market, see the draft as good value and overspend on it now. There just haven't been as many premium players falling down the board for signability as there used to be. What the changes do is marginalize multi-sport talents and hold down draft bonuses, but they probably don't change the distribution of talent.

No, by far the biggest help to small market teams is the ability to control players for their first 6 player years at an enormous discount on market price, as well as the exclusive ability to offer extensions beyond those first 6 years until the player reaches free agency. The response to any CBA changes is already showing itself - teams are going to sign more of their players to relatively team-friendly deals that buy out their most productive seasons. If you're a "small market" team, you don't really lose that much if you consistently control your talented players for 7 or 8 years, say from age 23-31. If most players run to the Yankees or Angels to chase one last huge contract in their early 30s, you're not losing all that much long-term (and maybe not in the short-term - ask the Cardinals if they regret not committing $250 million to Pujols right now). I'd think that the other response to CBA changes will be for more teams to slow down development curves ala the Phillies, where you really allow most players to play a year per level and bring them up at age 24-25 instead of 22-23 in order to maximize their MLB production in their first 6 seasons of team control.

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Thoughts on Bud Selig
« Reply #37: May 03, 2012, 01:24:47 AM »
Quote from: NJ Ave
No, by far the biggest help to small market teams is the ability to control players for their first 6 player years at an enormous discount on market price, as well as the exclusive ability to offer extensions beyond those first 6 years until the player reaches free agency. The response to any CBA changes is already showing itself - teams are going to sign more of their players to relatively team-friendly deals that buy out their most productive seasons. If you're a "small market" team, you don't really lose that much if you consistently control your talented players for 7 or 8 years, say from age 23-31. If most players run to the Yankees or Angels to chase one last huge contract in their early 30s, you're not losing all that much long-term (and maybe not in the short-term - ask the Cardinals if they regret not committing $250 million to Pujols right now). I'd think that the other response to CBA changes will be for more teams to slow down development curves ala the Phillies, where you really allow most players to play a year per level and bring them up at age 24-25 instead of 22-23 in order to maximize their MLB production in their first 6 seasons of team control.

If you think that's how this works, you're deluding yourself. Small market teams will seldom get ALL of those prime years. Instead they'll lose one or two of those prime years trading off those players because it doesnt make sense to hold onto them until the end of team control years only to get some crapshoot compensation draft pick. Instead, small market teams will receive some crapshoot prospect in a trade and lose valuable years of a cornerstone player all because they couldn't afford a long term deal and a trade was the viable alternative.

This cuts two ways as well. This is where the cap comes in handy. I agree that it doesn't necessarily make sense for a small/mid market team to attempt to outbid the Yankees/Angels on some aging star who will only provide like two good seasons, but such contracts NEVER seem to hit the big market teams. Can anyone honestly remember a time when the Yankees were "hamstrung by a bad contract?" If you do, you're bullcrapting. That's why a cap is desperately needed. There are a handful of teams that can and will never feel pain from "bad contracts" and they happen to be the ones who are always in contention and usually in the postseason.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Thoughts on Bud Selig
« Reply #38: May 03, 2012, 07:55:53 AM »
So you punish the players for teams being in cities that can't compete with what a $60 million cap so that a couple of teams can be more competitive?

Offline The Chief

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Re: Thoughts on Bud Selig
« Reply #39: May 03, 2012, 10:19:12 AM »
Split this off from the Destin Hood thread.

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Thoughts on Bud Selig
« Reply #40: May 03, 2012, 12:25:05 PM »
So you punish the players for teams being in cities that can't compete with what a $60 million cap so that a couple of teams can be more competitive?

Having them make 5 million dollars a year instead of 10 or 15 is "punishing" them?  Hah, okay then.

Offline comish4lif

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Re: Thoughts on Bud Selig
« Reply #41: May 03, 2012, 12:25:06 PM »
I think it sucks, but they still have the international market (cespedes anyone?), and they still will have better draft position, and more picks thanks to this new competitive balance lottery

New international rules kick into place soon. They are even more restrictive than the draft rules, each team gets a set amount - in the $2.5-3.0M range.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Thoughts on Bud Selig
« Reply #42: May 03, 2012, 12:29:09 PM »
Having them make 5 million dollars a year instead of 10 or 15 is "punishing" them?  Hah, okay then.

you're right, why should people have a right to earn what they're worth on a competitive open market

Offline comish4lif

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Re: Thoughts on Bud Selig
« Reply #43: May 03, 2012, 12:29:12 PM »
As far as the competitive balance issue, I don't blame Bud for the big market teams running roughshod over the small markets. I blame the small market owners. Why should Bud stand and take up the fight for them. Instead of trying to screw the players out of some of their collectively bargained benefits, the small owners should band together and address the revenue distribution issue from the ownership side.

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Thoughts on Bud Selig
« Reply #44: May 03, 2012, 12:44:26 PM »
Bullcrap.  Small market owners are logical actors here.  Their pockets are lined with revenue sharing money because there's no incentive to reinvest in the teams.  If anything, the incentive is to keep the teams playing miserably so that they'll continue to receive money with revenue sharing.

Bud is supposed to be an arbiter here.  It's his duty as commissioner to see to it that a backwards system like this doesn't exist.

you're right, why should people have a right to earn what they're worth on a competitive open market

Again, teams will still bid millions on these players, so who gives a crap?

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Thoughts on Bud Selig
« Reply #45: May 03, 2012, 01:13:02 PM »
So you punish the players for teams being in cities that can't compete with what a $60 million cap so that a couple of teams can be more competitive?

That's not being done in any other North American sports leagues, right?

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Thoughts on Bud Selig
« Reply #46: May 03, 2012, 01:17:18 PM »
That's not being done in any other North American sports leagues, right?

I like the fact that baseball hasn't descended into salary cap fueled mediocrity, I like giants and david v goliath

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Thoughts on Bud Selig
« Reply #47: May 03, 2012, 01:26:33 PM »
I like the fact that baseball hasn't descended into salary cap fueled mediocrity

You must not be watching the same crapbag players striking out left and right, playing shoddy defense, and making baserunning mistakes that I've been seeing for the past few years.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Thoughts on Bud Selig
« Reply #48: May 03, 2012, 01:43:08 PM »
You must not be watching the same crapbag players striking out left and right, playing shoddy defense, and making baserunning mistakes that I've been seeing for the past few years.

I'm watching an arms race in the AL east with a great story trying to break through, the possible resurgence of the LA teams, Chicago's latest attempt to resurrect themselves, the phillies attempt to spend their way to another title before it all falls apart, I personally like those story lines   

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Thoughts on Bud Selig
« Reply #49: May 03, 2012, 01:43:53 PM »
You must not be watching the same crapbag players striking out left and right, playing shoddy defense, and making baserunning mistakes that I've been seeing for the past few years.

I think he's forgotten that there are teams in Kansas City, Pissburgh, and Houston.