Author Topic: Davey Management Style  (Read 10556 times)

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Offline Kevrock

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #100: April 26, 2012, 06:26:44 AM »
So when does Davey start to get credit for his quick hook? I'm not crazy about taking starters out that early when they are doing well, but only because I have thought it backfires more often than not. It is not backfiring on Davey. It has worked for him and the staff, and we've been racking up the wins because of it.

Maybe mindfacting, but I don't really feel like he's burning our bullpen, either.

Offline imref

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #101: April 26, 2012, 07:29:25 AM »
I noted on another thread that we're tied for 4th in the NL in innings pitched by starters (6.2). Last year we finished 15th ahead of only Pittsbirgh.

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #102: April 26, 2012, 07:36:52 AM »
Remember JZ had Tommy John surgery 3 years ago.  But I like the idea of pulling pitchers.  Also, we don't know what the catchers are telling Davy Johnson about the pitchers sharpness, as the innings go on.
Honestly, JZ had already singled in a run earlier in the game - why not let him swing for laughs? Of course, the inning went well regardless, but I do understand the decision to bat Lombo. I just wish we were having this 'MLB-best' rotation get through the seventh inning more often.


Offline imref

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #103: April 26, 2012, 08:13:35 AM »
it was nice to see Gorzy reward Davey's faith.  Johnson doesn't seem to put a whole lot of stock in single game performances, once he trusts you he trusts you no matter what you do.  Obviously that can be a bit of a problem when someone is slumping badly, but at least Gorzy didn't come out of that debacle a few days ago wondering if he would be cut.

Offline imref

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #104: April 26, 2012, 08:17:37 AM »
So when does Davey start to get credit for his quick hook? I'm not crazy about taking starters out that early when they are doing well, but only because I have thought it backfires more often than not. It is not backfiring on Davey. It has worked for him and the staff, and we've been racking up the wins because of it.

Maybe mindfacting, but I don't really feel like he's burning our bullpen, either.

Nope, after last night we're 6th in the NL in IP/GS.

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #105: April 26, 2012, 09:04:23 AM »
it was nice to see Gorzy reward Davey's faith.  Johnson doesn't seem to put a whole lot of stock in single game performances, once he trusts you he trusts you no matter what you do.  Obviously that can be a bit of a problem when someone is slumping badly, but at least Gorzy didn't come out of that debacle a few days ago wondering if he would be cut.



After Zim-with-2N's pitched 6 innings, with plenty of run support, Gorz-a-Natty pitched 3 (three) innings and was credited with a Save in the 7-2 victory April 25th (8 months until Christmas, do your shopping early, Rizzo!)

This is what I finally expected to see from Davey's Johnson - using a former starter to finish a game, in this case, 3 innings.  That gave the remainder of the bullpen rest, and creates a competitive advantage over our opponents.  I actually did NOT like seeing 3 different relief pitchers warming up in the bottom of the 9th in San Diego. 

I expected to see this earlier in the season and want to see it much more often.  The innovative managing style of a 69-year-old manager, (ignored by the game for 10 years), will be a talking point, as this team heads toward the World Series in 2012.

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #106: April 26, 2012, 10:00:14 AM »
Remember JZ had Tommy John surgery 3 years ago.  But I like the idea of pulling pitchers.  Also, we don't know what the catchers are telling Davy Johnson about the pitchers sharpness, as the innings go on.


I'd rather overuse the pen than overuse the starters. We have three young arms (JZimm, Stras and Det) that need to be handled with care.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #107: April 26, 2012, 10:43:21 AM »
Quote
Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #105: Today at 09:04:23 AM »
Great post!  You are spot on.  Having a long guy finish out a blow out to give the rest of the pen a break is tremendous.  Gorzellany is our low leverage guy, this was a low leverage inning, he did his job, it keeps him stretched out. 

Davey has done a first rate job of conserving his key bullpen pieces.  There are about 30 pitchers who have appeared in 10 or more games, and none are Nats.  There are about 60 pitchers who have appeared in more games than Clippard this year, with only 2 from the Nats (HRod and Mattheus at 9).  I'd love to compare his usage of Clippard to last year for Riggles through the first two months.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #108: April 26, 2012, 10:48:36 AM »
Great post!  You are spot on.  Having a long guy finish out a blow out to give the rest of the pen a break is tremendous.  Gorzellany is our low leverage guy, this was a low leverage inning, he did his job, it keeps him stretched out. 

Davey has done a first rate job of conserving his key bullpen pieces.  There are about 30 pitchers who have appeared in 10 or more games, and none are Nats.  There are about 60 pitchers who have appeared in more games than Clippard this year, with only 2 from the Nats (HRod and Mattheus at 9).  I'd love to compare his usage of Clippard to last year for Riggles through the first two months.

Clippard appeared in 13 of the 26 games through March/April in 2011, so 50% of the games.

Clippard has appeared in 8 of the 18 games through March/April in 2012, so 44% of the games.

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #109: April 26, 2012, 10:52:59 AM »
Clippard was in the top 5 or so relievers for IP early in the season last year. IIRC.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #110: April 26, 2012, 10:54:29 AM »
Clippard was in the top 5 or so relievers for IP early in the season last year. IIRC.


Second in all of baseball for March/April with 17.1 innings pitched, Guillermo Mota pitched 17.2.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=rel&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2011&month=4&season1=2011&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&players=0&sort=7,d

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #111: April 26, 2012, 10:57:40 AM »
Hey, neat trick. Thanks.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #112: April 26, 2012, 11:00:46 AM »
Clipp has just pitched 8 innings this year. 

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #113: April 26, 2012, 11:03:36 AM »
Clipp has just pitched 8 innings this year. 

Yes... which is why I posted the 2011 stats for IP.

Offline loshjott

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #114: April 26, 2012, 11:14:19 AM »
Don't forget we'll have a fresh closer with 0 IP added to the pen...hopefully...by the all-star break.

Offline blue911

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #115: April 26, 2012, 11:54:39 AM »
I like the Dean Smith bullpen.

Offline LostYudite

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #116: April 26, 2012, 12:27:04 PM »
On Davey's quick hook, I also think a lot of that has been related to the complete lack of early-game offense.  Up 2-1 or down 1-0, or 3-2 or whatever in the bottom of the sixth or seventh, he's had to pull the starter for a PH in several games.  Even last night, though it ended up comfortable, was the standard 2-1 nailbiter in the seventh, so ZNN had to come out for a pinch hitter there.  If it's 5-1 there, I bet ZNN bats and comes out to pitch the seventh.

Basically, I've been good with most of Davey's decisions - certainly better than Riggs' insecure over-management messes of the past few years.  Davey manages like it's a marathon, where every inning and game is not a matter of life and death.

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #117: April 26, 2012, 12:34:59 PM »
Boz had a great tweet last night (btw he's great on twitter) about Gorzelanny taking one for the team last week (having to just eat innings even not having his stuff) and how he was repaid last night by notching a save.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #118: April 26, 2012, 12:35:14 PM »
Quote
Quote from: JCA-CrystalCity on Today at 11:00:46 AM
Clipp has just pitched 8 innings this year. 

Yes... which is why I posted the 2011 stats for IP.
and I posted a different piece of information for comparison to what you posted.

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #119: April 26, 2012, 02:50:18 PM »
This is funny since last season there was a lot of complaining about Davey leaving guys in too long. :)

Davey manages for the season and understands what that means better than most managers. He's also clearly handling he young pitchers in a certain way. The point about the lack of early game offense is spot on. The team is getting a ton of runs in the later innings.

Offline JMUalumni

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #120: April 26, 2012, 03:06:08 PM »
This is funny since last season there was a lot of complaining about Davey leaving guys in too long. :)

Really?  I remember it being quite the opposite in most cases.

Offline cmdterps44

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #121: April 26, 2012, 03:06:50 PM »
Really?  I remember it being quite the opposite in most cases.

Last year's complains on the managers moves blend together for me. I remember both sides for both managers. I can't tell which is which anymore.

Offline JMUalumni

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #122: April 26, 2012, 03:17:57 PM »
Last year's complains on the managers moves blend together for me. I remember both sides for both managers. I can't tell which is which anymore.

This is probably likely true.  I'm sure you could say either or (people complained that he left them in too long OR people complained he had too quick a hook) and go back and find a substantial amount of quotes to support either.  Additionally, people are going to be able to argue for the quick hook while its working and when its stops working the argument might not hold as much water.  It is a difficult thing to pinpoint and make an argument of much substance and a lot of it is going to be grounded in personal beliefs about the subject.  LIke I said, I'm happy with the results, so I can accept what he is doing for the time being, but I also think that, on a larger scale, it is a sad development of the evolution of the game towards the over-reliance on bullpens and the coddling of starting pitchers (part of this is obviously also due to the higher level of investment).  Another part of that is definitely due to a watered down starting pitching crop due to a larger amount of teams.  I see the worth in preserving the younger guys like Strasburg (who is what 23?), and maybe a loose argument for a guy like Zimm who is two seasons removed from TJ, but the aim for older guys like Jackson, Detwiler, and Gio should be getting to a minimum of 7 innings.  And, lastly, I recognize that some of these moves have been made in close games where there was a necessity to remove the pitcher to pinch hit, but there has also been a good share of moves made where that was not the case.

For me, the real test will be when the starters get in to jams and how quickly he pulls them in those situations, which really hasn't been a major issue to this point.  And, then there comes the issue when you actually need these guys to go deeper in games and they aren't conditioned to do so.

But to reiterate what I'm repeated on a few occasions, give me the curly W and Davey can pull the starters whenever he likes.

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #123: April 27, 2012, 12:38:43 AM »
Bump.

Offline The Chief

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #124: April 27, 2012, 12:50:56 AM »
Not sure how you lay this one on Davey.