Author Topic: Davey Management Style  (Read 11616 times)

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Offline blue911

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #375: August 10, 2012, 09:13:03 AM »
The wailing and gnashing of teeth in last night's game thread over pulling Jordan after 6 was a bit over the top...


...when the rationale was so clearly discernable.

http://washington.nationals.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120801&content_id=35955894&notebook_id=35957590&vkey=notebook_was&c_id=was


Do you think Terry Collins regrets allowing Santana throw 130 pitches in his no-hitter?


Offline Obed_Marsh

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #376: August 10, 2012, 09:29:27 AM »
The wailing and gnashing of teeth in last night's game thread over pulling Jordan after 6 was a bit over the top...

:dibbs: Quit coddling him. :dibbs:

;)


Offline aspenbubba

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #377: August 10, 2012, 09:36:05 AM »
Pull him early and let him live to pitch another day. We will need his innings next month and the month of October. We are in a pennant race.

Offline lastobjective

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #378: August 10, 2012, 09:38:38 AM »
And while the bullpen may be a lot more exciting than Znn and does let up more runs, the only thing that matters in the end is the win. I am cool with pulling him if he has the possibility to pitch in Sept, Oct and the rest of the postseason.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #379: August 10, 2012, 10:03:17 AM »
I approve of being cautious with a guy who is going to have to pitch a lot deeper into the year than he ever has, pile up a very big innings jump year over year, has had shoulder inflammation, and when we have a decent lead.  We joke some about stats here, but the Win Probability estimate at the time he was pulled was about 85% (3-0 lead on the road after 6 innings), while pitching him another inning of shutdown ball would only increase the WPA 4%.  I'm not saying those numbers are definitive, but it is a good indication that the Nats were very likely to win that game, that pitching him a little longer wasn't going to help all that much.  When you add in the bullpen had had a day off, it was not like you were stressing them. 

Pitching from 87 pitches up to 100 - 105 pitches, assuming things go well, would add stress to the arm at point in the season where you want to conserve stress and had an opportunity to do so, even without the shoulder concern.  If things did not go well, you were not going to let go over 110 pitches to let him clean up his mess. That's real pitcher abuse in a game where you have a lead in the division and are not facing ATL or a team you are in the playoff mix with.  If things start to fail, then you need to bring in reliever with men on - a much more difficult "hi leverage" situation than starting the 7th with a 3 run lead and no one on.

This decision made all the sense in the world.  Sounds like hindsight, but just because everything worked out consistent with the probabilities does not make the probabilities an invalid explanation of the strategy. 

Offline Slateman

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #380: August 26, 2012, 07:41:58 PM »
Davey needs to put a boot up this team's ass or the Nationals will be on their way to a Braves/Sox like collapse

Mental errors all over the place. Espinosa's stolen base attempt. No attention paid to opposing runners. LaRoche and Werth's gaff today. Having Desmond announced and then not hit, thus setting back his DL clock.

Look, I haven't exactly kept my feelings for Davey a secret. I really don't think he's much of an improvement. We're still burning through the bullpen like before. Clippard is just about where he was last year in terms of use. The team is making some mental errors and pretty much assumed they could coast after the Braves series. He needs to get their attention. Now. Or else, Strasburg in October really won't be an issue ...

Offline tomterp

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #381: August 26, 2012, 08:12:10 PM »
Having Desmond announced and then not hit, thus setting back his DL clock.


He put Desmond up to draw a pitching change from Manuel, which worked - he then followed with Tracy as intended.

Not sure what you mean by setting back his DL clock.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #382: August 26, 2012, 08:14:40 PM »
He put Desmond up to draw a pitching change from Manuel, which worked - he then followed with Tracy as intended.

Not sure what you mean by setting back his DL clock.

If Desi is going to go on the DL, his 15 days starts today, instead of a couple days ago. It's a pretty foolish mistake to make.

Offline tomterp

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #383: August 26, 2012, 08:18:34 PM »
If Desi is going to go on the DL, his 15 days starts today, instead of a couple days ago. It's a pretty foolish mistake to make.

Is DL'ing him on the table?  Haven't been around much today, didn't catch that. 


Offline Slateman

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #384: August 26, 2012, 08:22:42 PM »
Is DL'ing him on the table?  Haven't been around much today, didn't catch that. 



Hasn't played in three or four days due to his knee. It should have been left as an option.

Offline comish4lif

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #385: August 26, 2012, 08:29:02 PM »
Hasn't played in three or four days due to his knee. It should have been left as an option.

Maybe that's Davey's way of getting Rizzo's attention since Rizzo has left him with a short bench and no Middle Infield depth....

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #386: August 26, 2012, 08:36:06 PM »
Is DL'ing him on the table?  Haven't been around much today, didn't catch that. 



There's no need for it to be. Come September 1 with expanded rosters, you just add a player and Desmond just sits until he's healthy.

Offline lastobjective

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #387: August 26, 2012, 08:37:38 PM »
There's no need for it to be. Come September 1 with expanded rosters, you just add a player and Desmond just sits until he's healthy.

Makes sense, just seems a bit far out.

Offline tomterp

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #388: August 26, 2012, 08:39:24 PM »
There's no need for it to be. Come September 1 with expanded rosters, you just add a player and Desmond just sits until he's healthy.

That's right.  Plus, Desmond has to be nearly ready or Davey wouldn't have taken the risk. 

Charlie and Dave were all over it, correctly guessing that Davey didn't really mean for Desmond to bat and that he wanted the Tracy matchup instead.  Just a relatively minor chess move.

Offline Ray D

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #389: August 27, 2012, 09:05:14 AM »
LaRoche and Werth's gaff today.

Definitely a huge and disappointing mental error by LaRoche.

  But Werth?  I'm not sure he was at fault.  The replay seemed to show that he played it just about right. He was trying to get back to second base to tag up if the ball was caugth.  There was nobody out (right?) so he wanted to get to third, at least, and was not necessarily going to try to score.   That's the way I read it (nobody on air really addressed it).   So he was stuck at third, and LaRoche didn't notice him until he had rounded second and it was too late.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #390: August 27, 2012, 09:06:43 AM »
That's right.  Plus, Desmond has to be nearly ready or Davey wouldn't have taken the risk. 

Charlie and Dave were all over it, correctly guessing that Davey didn't really mean for Desmond to bat and that he wanted the Tracy matchup instead.  Just a relatively minor chess move.

there's no reason for a dl stint with rosters expanding so soon anyway

edit- linty already said the same thing

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #391: August 27, 2012, 09:08:52 AM »
See me and tom's posts. :lol:

Offline tomterp

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #392: August 27, 2012, 09:09:44 AM »
Definitely a huge and disappointing mental error by LaRoche.


True, though the ground rule for the park seems to be different than most.   It hit off the top of the railing, most places that's a homer but for sure LaRoche or any player needs to know the rules ahead of time for each park they play in.

Offline shoeshineboy

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #393: August 27, 2012, 09:31:25 AM »
Yeah, it wasn't clear what exactly Werth did. The announcers made it sound like he was in a slow trot, but even with that he could have scored. I figure he was either holding up at 2nd as was said and possibly even knew it wasn't a home run. Players should know the ground rules going in, but in this case as FP was saying how the players don't always know, I couldn't help think that would be nuts if Werth didn't know. It was his home park for years, and he played RF. If anyone would have known, it would/should have been him. So, it would have been a major gaffe on his part if he was simply shuffling around the bases thinking it was a HR. FP assumed he should have scored, but if he was waiting near 2B to tag up, that's not a given.

Offline Jordanz Meatballz

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #394: August 27, 2012, 09:34:12 AM »
Where's the blame for Bo Porter in all of this?

Offline Ray D

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #395: August 27, 2012, 09:40:33 AM »
Where's the blame for Bo Porter in all of this?

Absolutely!

Offline mitlen

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #396: August 27, 2012, 09:42:49 AM »
Where's the blame for Bo Porter in all of this?

Absolutely!

Crossed my mind as well.   Surely the base coaches would know the ground rules.   Maybe Bo did and held up Werth.  What part falls on the 1st base coach?   Was he high 5'ing LaRoache instead of paying attention?     Lots of missing parts to this.


Offline Ray D

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #397: August 27, 2012, 09:42:54 AM »
I don't even think it's so much a matter of knowing the ground rules, as it is a matter of, unless it is clearly a homerun you run the bases as though it isn't until you see the umpire signal homerun. (And there isn't any signal for "in play". So if the umpire makes no signal, assume it's in play.)

Offline Ray D

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #398: August 27, 2012, 09:43:37 AM »
What part falls on the 1st base coach.   



That too!


Offline mitlen

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #399: August 27, 2012, 09:44:15 AM »
I don't even think it's so much a matter of knowing the ground rules, as it is a matter of, unless it is clearly a homerun you run the bases as though it isn't until you see the umpire signal homerun. (And there isn't any signal for "in play". So if the umpire makes no signal, assume it's in play.)

Exaclty my sentiments yesterday when it happened.   This is more of a "head up the ass" moment.