Author Topic: Davey Management Style  (Read 14332 times)

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Offline The Chief

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #25: April 20, 2012, 12:44:40 PM »
I too agree with those things that have been said and disagree with those other things that have been said!

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #26: April 20, 2012, 12:45:28 PM »
I see what you mean, but Jackson was doing fine at that point so why take him out so soon?

He had just gone 9 his previous start, maybe Davvy just doesn't want to push him too hard this early in the season, or maybe he just wanted to get gorzo some work

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #27: April 20, 2012, 12:45:35 PM »
Really, his management of the starters is the only thing I have disagreed with so far and even with that I would like to wait a few more weeks before I make any definitive statements about it (though the trend is disheartening at this point).  Overall, I think he has been doing a good job as manager.

I hate his pitcher management at times*, but think he's done a fantastic job overall.

*We're kinda seeing the pitcher management paradigm blown up by injury analysis and  stat analysis right now, so much of my criticism last year was probably wrong.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #28: April 20, 2012, 12:46:20 PM »
How diplomatic of you, Mr. Saurus.

Offline The Chief

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #29: April 20, 2012, 12:49:26 PM »
Edit by Chief

This thread is a split from (and the "spiritual successor" to) the "Do you like the hiring of Davey Johnson..." thread:

http://www.wnff.net/index.php?topic=23239

Offline The Chief

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #30: April 20, 2012, 12:49:59 PM »

Offline Mathguy

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #31: April 20, 2012, 01:03:16 PM »
Please be careful what you say to Chief - or there won't be enough room on the board for us and his head

How diplomatic of you, Mr. Saurus.


Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #32: April 20, 2012, 01:05:41 PM »
I don't mind replacing Jackson with Gorzo, I just thought it was an inning to early. Bring Gorz in in the 7th and he goes 2 or 3 and saves either Mattheus or Burnett from having to work.  Mattheus did not need work, and I forget the prior time Burnett had pitched.

Offline The Chief

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #33: April 20, 2012, 01:09:20 PM »
Please be careful what you say to Chief - or there won't be enough room on the board for us and his head

:rofl:

Offline PC

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #34: April 20, 2012, 02:10:58 PM »
Another issue I have with Davey adhering to the roles of the pitching staff.  Aside from shutting down Jackson an inning too early, I believe, he also mentioned that Gorzelanny had troubles getting out left handers.  Considering he's a left handed pitcher, that was a problem but he's also a long man.  Being the long man means he's supposed to pitch multiple innings which means he's also going to face a number of right handed batters as well.  In last night's game, in the 6th for the Astros, the upcoming batters were L-R-L-S then the pitcher.  I think this played a role in going to Gorzelanny at that point.

The number of left handed batters immediately coming to bat shouldn't be a high consideration for using Gorzelanny.  If he was specifically concerned about getting out lefties then he should have used Burnett in the 6th, assuming he takes Jackson out (which I still disagree with) and then gone to Gorzelanny in the 7th.  Again Gorzelanny is a long man so he has to be able to get both lefties and righties out.

Offline CatsEye

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #35: April 20, 2012, 02:35:43 PM »
Am I the only one who doesn't think it was a bad decision? If you're afraid to put Gorzo in against the Astros (who should compete for the number 1 pick), why even have him on the team?
Well, some of us are not that impressed with Gorzo - I mean really, you all think he is that great to be in the bullpen ?  :popcorn:


Offline Ray D

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #36: April 20, 2012, 02:36:29 PM »
He had just gone 9 his previous start,

But only about 95 pitches.


Offline Obed_Marsh

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #37: April 20, 2012, 02:37:14 PM »
Davey gets results. I care more about results than quibbles.

Offline Ray D

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #38: April 20, 2012, 02:38:02 PM »
If you're afraid to put Gorzo in against the Astros why even have him on the team?
Why do we have him on the team?


Offline CatsEye

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #39: April 20, 2012, 02:38:12 PM »
Please be careful what you say to Chief - or there won't be enough room on the board for us and his head

 Now there's something we can all agree on...... :mg:

Offline JMUalumni

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #40: April 20, 2012, 02:39:53 PM »
Why do we have him on the team?



Presumably to fill the void until Wang gets back and Detwiler is moved back to the pen.

Offline Fan037

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #41: April 20, 2012, 05:11:28 PM »
Only criticism I have of Davey is not getting Lombardozzi in the line-up more.

Offline Evolution33

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #42: April 20, 2012, 05:16:00 PM »
Am I the only one who doesn't think it was a bad decision? If you're afraid to put Gorzo in against the Astros (who should compete for the number 1 pick), why even have him on the team?

I thought it was the right call. His long relievers are Gorzo and Stammen and he choose Gorzo because the hitters due up were L-R-L. Gorzo had a really bad day and Davey left him out to dry so he didn't have to sacrifice anymore of the bullpen.

Offline Ray D

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #43: April 20, 2012, 05:24:10 PM »
Davey left him out to dry so he didn't have to sacrifice anymore of the bullpen.

You think Davey threw in the towel at 8-4?  We had already come back from 5-0 to make it 5-4.  Given that I don't think 8-4 should have been assumed to be an insurmountable lead with four innings to go.

(You can argue that in retrospect it was the right decision since we didn't score any more runs.  But who knows, maybe the team took Davey's cue when he left Gorzelanny in there, and all went into shut down mode.)



Online PowerBoater69

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #44: April 20, 2012, 06:52:04 PM »
Quote from: DJ
Bullpen’s been pretty taxed pretty much all year,” Johnson said. “It wasn’t the case where I was going to throw the kitchen sink at them trying to win that ballgame. I want to go into the division series against Miami without an overburdened pen so Gorzo kind of hand to take it on the chin. That happens in this game.

I'm a Davey fan, but man to I miss old Frank Robinson, that dude managed every game like it was game seven of the World Series, worry about tomorrow tomorrow, do everything to win tonight.

Offline Ray D

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #45: April 20, 2012, 06:56:42 PM »
I'm a Davey fan, but man to I miss old Frank Robinson, that dude managed every game like it was game seven of the World Series, worry about tomorrow tomorrow, do everything to win tonight.
And the result was the manic depressive season of 2005.   Not a bad thing,  I'm still glad we had that thrill of the first half (along with the awful second half) rather than a full season of steady .500 ball. 

Offline Nathan

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #46: April 20, 2012, 07:01:20 PM »
I'm a Davey fan, but man to I miss old Frank Robinson, that dude managed every game like it was game seven of the World Series, worry about tomorrow tomorrow, do everything to win tonight.

He could have saved the bullpen more by having EJax go for one more inning, seeing as how he was cruising after a terrible start.  Yeah, when they were down again by what, 5 runs in the 7th, THEN I let the Gorz take it on the chin.

Taxed bullpen?  :lmao:  Doesn't he remember the days when having a starter able to go just 6 innings was a :woop: moment?  We've had guys going 7 pretty consistently lately, though I guess there were a good many extra innings games.

Online PowerBoater69

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #47: April 20, 2012, 07:04:21 PM »
And the result was the manic depressive season of 2005.   Not a bad thing,  I'm still glad we had that thrill of the first half (along with the awful second half) rather than a full season of steady .500 ball. 


The result of 2005 had to do with our starters falling apart at the end more than the bullpen and MLB not providing the budget to make a late season playoff push.

Online PowerBoater69

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #48: April 20, 2012, 07:05:28 PM »
He could have saved the bullpen more by having EJax go for one more inning, seeing as how he was cruising after a terrible start.  Yeah, when they were down again by what, 5 runs in the 7th, THEN I let the Gorz take it on the chin.

Taxed bullpen?  :lmao:  Doesn't he remember the days when having a starter able to go just 6 innings was a :woop: moment?  We've had guys going 7 pretty consistently lately, though I guess there were a good many extra innings games.

I was not happy with either decision, taking EJax out too early or leaving Gorz in too long.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #49: April 20, 2012, 08:33:46 PM »
Pulling pitchers before 80 pitches is freaking ridiculous.