Author Topic: Davey Management Style  (Read 10562 times)

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Offline Kevrock

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #200: May 13, 2012, 09:34:15 PM »
I love Davey, depite my qualms with his pitching management.

Offline Obed_Marsh

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #201: May 13, 2012, 09:35:22 PM »
If that's true, I honestly don't want the playoffs. If Davey goes than Eckstein goes

Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water. :smh: I'll take years more of Davey if it means playoffs.

Online mmzznnxx

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #202: May 13, 2012, 09:36:57 PM »
I love Davey, depite my qualms with his pitching management.



Offline Slateman

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #203: May 13, 2012, 10:17:36 PM »
Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water. :smh: I'll take years more of Davey if it means playoffs.

We won't get years of playoffs with Davey. His inability to make sound baseball decisions is costing this team games.

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #204: May 13, 2012, 10:26:42 PM »
We won't get years of playoffs with Davey. His inability to make sound baseball decisions is costing this team games.

First manager you've followed closely?

Offline Slateman

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #205: May 13, 2012, 10:39:39 PM »
First manager you've followed closely?

No, but Davey has a reputation for being a good manager, and so far, it seems undeserved. The game seems to have passed him by. I honestly believe that Rizzo is the reason Harper is up here. If it were up to Davey, he would have started Bernadina in LF and Nady in RF

Online spidernat

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #206: May 14, 2012, 12:24:57 AM »
The game seems to have passed him by.


:spit:

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #207: May 14, 2012, 06:11:04 AM »
No, but Davey has a reputation for being a good manager, and so far, it seems undeserved. The game seems to have passed him by. I honestly believe that Rizzo is the reason Harper is up here. If it were up to Davey, he would have started Bernadina in LF and Nady in RF

What are you even talking about? Davey campaigned for Harper to start the season up here.

Online PowerBoater69

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #208: May 14, 2012, 07:12:21 AM »
Didn't he say before the season that he would resign if we don't make the postseason?

No, he said that they could fire him, which of course was a joke because like Riggleman he is on a one year contract.

Offline tomterp

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Online wpa2629

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #210: May 14, 2012, 09:33:23 AM »
LOL

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #211: May 14, 2012, 12:40:25 PM »
Couldn't disagree more. Davey is masterful.
:spit:  :spit:

 :spit:  :spit:  :spit:



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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #212: May 14, 2012, 01:51:56 PM »
Let’s rehash the 13 losses and see how Davey’s used his bullpen:


Loss #1 – Going for the sweep agains the Cubs in a Zimmermann start.  Mattheus pitched 1/3 of an inning and gave up 2 runs which were the runs that gave the cubs the lead.  Burnett pitched 2/3 of an inning giving up no hits and no runs.

Stammen pitched 2.1 innings the previous day so he might not have been available and I don’t believe it had been established yet that Mattheus is one of the lesser options in the bullpen.


Loss #2 – Opening game against the Mets in a Jackson start.  Gorzelanny pitched 2.2 innings, walking three but giving up no runs.  Rodriguez pitched 1/3 of an inning (facing three batters) committed a throwing error and gave up the winning run and got the loss.

If you remember this was one of the first games where there was some very dubious umpiring, Adam being called out at 2nd being the most memorable gaffe.


Loss #3 – Going for the sweep against the Reds in a Detwiler start.  Stammen pitced 2 scoreless.  Mattheus pitche 1 scoreless.  Lidge pitched 1 scoreless.  Rodriguez pitched 1 scoreless.  It was Clippard who gave it up in this game, 3 runs in the 11th.

This was another problemed umpiring game where in the first inning…well the first inning…


Loss #4 – Going for the sweep against the Astros in a Jackson start.  Gorzelanny entered the game at 5-4 Astros and pitched 2 innings giving up six runs.  Mattheus pitched one scoreless inning. Burnett pitched one scoreless inning.

Jackson settled down after giving up 5 runs in the first and was removed from the game after 5 on pitch count of 89, for Gorzelanny.


Loss #5 – Going for the sweep against the Padres in a Jackson start.  Clippard pitched 2 innings, giving up 2 runs.  Burnett pitched a scoreless 1/3 of an inning.

This game turned on the Clippard-Kotsay matchup in the 8th inning.  Kotsay hit a double in the game to give the Padres a 2-1 lead.


Loss #6 – Opening game in the Dodgers series, a Detwiler start.  Burnett pitched 0.2 scoreless innings.  Mattheus pitched 1.1 scoreless innings.

All the runs in this game were surrendered by the starter.  Detwiler gave up three runs in six innings and got the loss.



Loss #7 – Second game in the Dodgers series, a Strasburg start.  Clippard pitched 1 scoreless inning. Rodriguez pitched 2/3 of an inning giving up 2 runs and 3 wild pitches.  Gorzelanny pitched 0.1 innings giving up one run.

Matt Kemp hit the walkoff homerun against Gorzelanny in the 10th.


Loss #8 – Final game of the Dodgers series, a Gonzalez start.  Stammen pitched 2 scoreless innings.

All the runs in this one were also surrendered by the starter.  Gonzalez gave up 2 runs in six innings and got the loss.


Loss #9 – Opening game of the Diamondback series, a Zimmermann start.  Mattheus pitched 2 scoreless innings.  Perry pitched 1 inning giving up 1 run.

Zimmermann gave up 4 runs (3 earned) in 6.1 innings and that was enough to get the loss.


Loss #10 – Going for the sweep against the Phillies in a Zimmermann start.  Stammen pitched 1 scoreless inning.  Burnett pitched 1 scoreless inning.  Perry pitched 0.2 innings, giving up six runs.  Gorzelanny pitched 0.1 scoreless innings.

Zimmermann up three runs in six innings and left the bases loaded in the 7th for Stammen who didn’t allow any of them to score.


Loss #11 – Game one against the Pirates, a Jackson start.  Clippard pitched 1 inning giving up 1 unearned run.  Rodriguez pitched 2/3 of an inning giving up 2 runs, with two wild pitches getting the blown save and the loss.

Barajas hit the 2-run walkoff against Rodriguez in the 9th.


Loss #12 – Second game of the Pirates series, a Detwiler start.  Stammen pitched 2 innings, giving up 1 run.

Detwiler gave up three runs in six innings and that was enough to loss the game.


Loss #13 – Going for the sweep against the Reds, a Jackson start.  Gorzelanny pitched 1 scoreless inning.  Mattheus pitched 1.1 innings giving up 1 unearned run.  Burnett pitched 0.2 innings, giving up 1 run.  Rodriguez pitched 0.2 innings giving up four runs getting the loss and blown save.

It happened yesterday.


Looking at the losses, I wanted to see if my perceptions that Johnson has made some questionable/curious decisions regarding the pitching was borne out.  In a few of the losses, the offense was so completely ineffectual (losses 6, 8, 9, 10 and 12) that it didn’t matter what combination of relievers were used late in games but, for most of the others there are some decisions that are difficult to understand.

Loss #4, for example, Jackson was signed to be an innings eater but was removed after just 89 pitches and Gorzelanny replaced him and gave up 5 more runs.  If you remember, there were a couple of lefties due up and Davey wanted a lefty-lefty matchup.  The problem is Gorzelanny role on the team.  He’s a long man so he has to be able to get out both lefties and righties.  Using him specifically to have a lefty-lefty matchup is not his defined role.  He was also terrible in this game, giving up hit after hit after hit including to those lefties Davey wanted to match him up against.

In loss #5 against the Padres, remember Clippard had a very tough time against Kotsay (a lefty) on the previous night.  They had a very long at-bat against each other where Kotsay got a good look at all of Clippard’s pitches.  Burnett, the pitcher that most resembles a left handed specialist on the staff was clearly available because Davey went to him later in the inning, after the Kotsay double that gave the Padres the lead, to face a lefty.  Why Davey chose to have Clippard face Kotsay again after the previous game when Burnett was available is still a mystery. 

Loss #7, Davey had Gorzelanny against Kemp and ended with a walkoff, imaginary horse riding homerun.  This, despite Kemp’s great numbers against lefties and several right handed pitchers available.  I believe there were left handed batters that Davey wanted to have Gorzelanny go up against but he had to get past Kemp and couldn’t, which isn’t terribly surprising.  I’ll give Davey a slight pass here because it was extra innings that really came up out of nowhere (see the Rodriguez implosions) and I think he kind of conceded this game.  Of course, he could have walked Kemp and gotten to those lefties that he wanted to matchup Gorzelanny with instead of pitching to Kemp.  Yes, you don’t intentionally walk the winning run in extras but you also shouldn’t pitch a lefty against Matt Kemp if you don’t have to.


In loss #10, the Perry outing probably wasn’t deciding but was a curious decision as Perry is the most recent callup and has to be considered one of the last, if not THE last options in the bullpen.  In a game against the Phillies, on national television, use of Perry wasn’t reading “the moment” very well on Davey’s part.


Now for the Rodriguez implosions.  He’s played a significant role in four of the 13 losses.  When we watch Rodriguez and he’s not “on” that he’s not going to get “on” in that outing and the facts would tend to bear that out but, it just occurred to me that, maybe Davey doesn’t see what we see.  Perhaps what we see as Rodriguez being “off”, Davey doesn’t see or, perhaps, he sees Rodriguez as being “off” but thinks he’ll pull it together despite lots of evidence to the contrary.

The Rodriguez implosions are so predictable, usually after a handful of pitches yet their predictability doesn’t make them any less traumatic.  Davey’s use of Rodriguez is his signature failure of bullpen management but, to be fair, we don’t know if it’s really Johnson or Rizzo who’s responsible for this.  We know what they say publicly about Rodriguez but it would be interesting to know what they really think about him.

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #213: May 14, 2012, 02:07:13 PM »
Let’s rehash the 13 losses and see how Davey’s used his bullpen:

Loss #1 – WORST LOSS OF THE SEASON!
Loss #2 – WORST LOSS OF THE SEASON!
Loss #3 – WORST LOSS OF THE SEASON!
Loss #4 – WORST LOSS OF THE SEASON!
Loss #5 – WORST LOSS OF THE SEASON!
Loss #6 – WORST LOSS OF THE SEASON!
Loss #7 – WORST LOSS OF THE SEASON!
Loss #8 – WORST LOSS OF THE SEASON!
Loss #9 – WORST LOSS OF THE SEASON!
Loss #10 – WORST LOSS OF THE SEASON!
Loss #11 – WORST LOSS OF THE SEASON!
Loss #12 – WORST LOSS OF THE SEASON!
Loss #13 – WORST LOSS OF THE SEASON!


Online wpa2629

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #214: May 14, 2012, 02:09:30 PM »
OMG

Nats are going to have about 70+ losses, are we seriously going to freak out over every one? There are 162 games in a session, every team, even the really, really good ones, lose an ass load of games.

That's baseball

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Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #216: May 14, 2012, 04:12:20 PM »
Nice job, PC.    In fairness, and not saying anyone should do this, but you have to look at the wins and whether he made food decisions in his bullpen use, too.

Maybe another way to look at this is to look at Win Probability Added.  WPA. I forget who was on her case, but this is how she breaks down.

What is interesting is that Stammen, Mattheus, and Burnett lead in WPA, while the laggards are Henry, Clip, and Lidge.  Perry has pitched in the least important / lowest leverage situations, while our highest lev relievers have been Clip, Hrod, and Lidge.  We've kind of been let down by the pitchers we trust with the most important innings.  That should not shock anyone.   

Does this indicate that Davey's mismanaging things? Before you say that, both Clip and, believe it or not, HRod, have had more effective outings than ineffective ones, by > 2:1, if you buy shutdown / meltdown stats.   I think a better Q is, will Davey start inserting Stammen, Mattheus, and Burnet in higher pressure situations and see if they can continue success.  This is how Clippard started in the pen.

By the way, let's not forget, even with the H-Rod implosions and the occasional Lidge / Perry appearances, we have #7 in WAR bullpen in the majors. Tied for 7th fewest appearances.  Before you say it is just the starters, we are 12th fewest in bullpen innings.  Some of that may be extra innings, but it probably also shows that Davey is slow to pull relievers and likes multi-inning appearances more than other managers. 

Offline welch

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #217: May 14, 2012, 04:24:04 PM »
PC, do you keep score? That is, seriously, an impressive collection of game descriptions.

Reading it, I think that Davey has chosen the right on pitching most of the time. Who can predict? We know that the Nats would have won more games with Storen, and probably with Lidge healthy, but then it must be easier to manage (at least the pitching) when you have this group of starters.

I would have started Lombo more, but Davey's job, partly, is to get more out of players like Espinosa...and maybe Bernadina is on one of his streaks?


Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #218: May 14, 2012, 04:29:44 PM »
I think the question you asked is important. It seems like a lot of fans want managers to be omniscient. They aren't. That things went badly does not mean the manager did not make the best choice given the information he had.

We all want our sports teams to do well. But if we were measured in everyday life the way we measure managers and FO folks, we'd all be unemployed.

Who can predict?


Online DPMOmaha

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #219: May 14, 2012, 04:47:33 PM »
OMG

Nats are going to have about 70+ losses, are we seriously going to freak out over everyone? There are 162 games in a session, every team, even the really, really good ones, lose an ass load of games.

That's baseball

And all of them will have a handful of soul crushing ones at that.  Every single team.  Enjoy the ride guys, this is fun.

Offline MorseTheHorse

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #220: May 14, 2012, 09:24:40 PM »
Pinch hit Xavier Nady for Bernadina tonight when Bernie was 2 for 3 on the night. 

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #221: May 14, 2012, 09:35:51 PM »
Pinch hit Xavier Nady for Bernadina tonight when Bernie was 2 for 3 on the night. 

No lefty is going to hit this guy. That would have been a big run, especially with H-Rod circling.

My dad and I talked about the move for like 10 minutes. It's a tough call.

Offline comish4lif

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #222: May 14, 2012, 09:42:53 PM »
Pinch hit Xavier Nady for Bernadina tonight when Bernie was 2 for 3 on the night. 

Bernadina career .219 with .589 OPS vs lefties.

Nady his .286 with .769 OPS off lefties.

:little shrugging guy:

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #223: May 14, 2012, 09:52:21 PM »
But Nady mostly did that years ago.  Any platoon advantage you might have gotten from Nady in recent years is negated by his level of suck.

Offline tomterp

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Re: Davey Management Style
« Reply #224: May 14, 2012, 09:54:03 PM »
Pinch hit Xavier Nady for Bernadina tonight when Bernie was 2 for 3 on the night.

 :lmao: