Author Topic: Strasburg in October..  (Read 23530 times)

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Offline Smithian

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #950: August 22, 2012, 02:53:13 PM »
Can you prove that he's not?
:smh:

Saying Strasburg is just another guy isn't trolling? Even in the slightest sense?
Didn't say he was "another guy". I said he is, and I quote, "very important" and an "amazing pitcher". Doesn't change the fact he is 1 player of 25. There are 24 other guys who also have earned a spot on the best team in baseball. The season doesn't end when Strasburg leaves the mound for the last time in 2012.

Offline ac921ol

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #951: August 22, 2012, 02:55:04 PM »
anywhere I can find videos of players just freezing and just walking away and making that face, like WTF just happened, Its impossible for me to search on youtube or mlb.com

thanks for anyone and everyones help.

And I want stras in for Oct, but I have a feeling this team is on a serious roll, as I am sure a lot of you do as well.
but we know Stras will not pitch in Oct. :-(

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #952: August 22, 2012, 02:55:38 PM »
Your first post, and I quote "...Strasburg is one player out of 25..."

Also, answer this. By sitting Strasburg for the playoffs, are the Nats helping or hurting their chances of winning the WS in 2012?

Offline Smithian

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #953: August 22, 2012, 02:56:58 PM »
Your first post, and I quote "Strasburg is just one of 25..."
He is.

Unless Stephen Strasburg is somehow 2 people, then he is just one of 25.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #954: August 22, 2012, 02:58:35 PM »
That implies he's just another guy.

We all know he's not just another guy. He's the best pitcher we have.

That's like saying Mike Trout is just one of 25. Sure he is. Replace him with Vernon Wells. See how well it works out for you.

Offline Monarch

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #955: August 22, 2012, 03:13:20 PM »
mike trout also plays everyday. strasburg would pitch once, maybe twice per series and not even for the whole game. you're right however, him not pitching in the playoffs doesn't help our chances, but I believe even without him we have a better chance to win than just about any other team.

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #956: August 22, 2012, 03:24:23 PM »
Yeah, but there's no way of knowing how effective he'd be in October - that's a LONG ass season for someone who's never pitched that much. Maybe he gets lit up and hurts our chances to win?

:shrug:

Nobody knows

Well, maybe Buddha knows

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #957: August 22, 2012, 03:28:54 PM »
Yeah, but there's no way of knowing how effective he'd be in October - that's a LONG ass season for someone who's never pitched that much. Maybe he gets lit up and hurts our chances to win?

:shrug:

Nobody knows

Well, maybe Buddha knows

And Confucious.

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #958: August 22, 2012, 03:32:22 PM »

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #959: August 22, 2012, 03:33:19 PM »
And the Travelocity Gnome

Online Slateman

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #960: August 22, 2012, 03:49:12 PM »
And Martie McFly

Offline LostYudite

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #961: August 22, 2012, 04:06:25 PM »
I think Linty's right here and you guys are trolling him because he's taking an anti-Rizzo stand.  I'm softer on the point and concede that there's no way of knowing whether this is the right move in the long-term and that it may well be the key to a long, sustained run of playoff appearances, but it's not like it's a no-cost move..

That said, pretending like it doesn't hurt our 2012 chances or that there was no other possible way to plan for this or that the clubhouse will be fine with it is pure homerism. 

In order, (1) it does hurt our 2012 chances and anybody who argues differently doesn't get baseball.  Yes, Smithian, the other 24 guys are good too and they'll try their damndest and maybe they're good enough to get it done without him, but suggesting that bemoaning the loss of Strasburg is somehow disrespectful to the other 24 misses the point.  In fact, the loss of Strasburg hurts precisely BECAUSE the other 24 are so good.  If the Nats were 25-0 in Strasburg's starts, but 42-56 in the other 98 games, none of this would matter.  Losing Strasburg is bad in the short-term BECAUSE the other 24 are so good.  Sure, maybe ZNN, EJ, Gio and Det are good enough to carry the team through, but it'd be even better with Stras.

(2) Of course the decision is the decision and it's final.  That's not the issue either - the issue is that Rizzo clearly presumed at the beginning of the season that we probably weren't going to be a real contender and then didn't really think through how they might adjust as the Nats started to contend.  Maybe he did the right thing there - maybe he shouldn't reconsider, if you believe in the long-term goal, but to the extent he didn't reconsider, he took no steps to mitigate the impact on what's turning out to be a pretty incredible 2012 season.  Again, this isn't a "Fire Rizzo! He sucks!" point - it's just a fact.  Rizzo's strategy is pure sacrifice-now-for-later.  Maybe he's right.

(3) The clubhouse is not fine and won't be fine.  Of course, they're professionals so they're not going to go out in the media and complain - they also might grudgingly admit that he's a long-term asset, BUT I also believe they're going to ask in their quiet moments "What about me? What about my shot to win a championship?  Why isn't the team putting us in the best position to win right now?  I only have (2, 4, 6, 8, 10) years left in my career - how many more times will I have this chance?"  Don't think that's not weighing on guys like LaRoche and Werth and Gonzalez. 

And WPA - of course he might get lit up in the playoffs - life is a crapshoot.  Who do you think is more likely to get lit up in a World Series start against the Yankees - Detwiler or Stras?  You don't know and neither do I*, but it seems to me if you're trying to win now, you want your best pitcher in the biggest game.

Don't get me wrong - I'm on board with shutting Stras down, and if I'm in Rizzo's chair I think I make the same call.  But pretending that it's done at no cost in the short-term or that our 2012 chances aren't impacted is silly.  Nobody says we can't win without him.  If you made Usain Bolt run 110 meters when everybody else runs 100, he might still win because he's just that fast, but nobody would argue that he wasn't at a disadvantage.

*edit:  But the Flying Spaghetti Monster and Chuck Norris do!

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #962: August 22, 2012, 04:09:16 PM »
I think Linty's right here and you guys are trolling him because he's taking an anti-Rizzo stand.  I'm softer on the point and concede that there's no way of knowing whether this is the right move in the long-term and that it may well be the key to a long, sustained run of playoff appearances, but it's not like it's a no-cost move..

That said, pretending like it doesn't hurt our 2012 chances or that there was no other possible way to plan for this or that the clubhouse will be fine with it is pure homerism. 

In order, (1) it does hurt our 2012 chances and anybody who argues differently doesn't get baseball.  Yes, Smithian, the other 24 guys are good too and they'll try their damndest and maybe they're good enough to get it done without him, but suggesting that bemoaning the loss of Strasburg is somehow disrespectful to the other 24 misses the point.  In fact, the loss of Strasburg hurts precisely BECAUSE the other 24 are so good.  If the Nats were 25-0 in Strasburg's starts, but 42-56 in the other 98 games, none of this would matter.  Losing Strasburg is bad in the short-term BECAUSE the other 24 are so good.  Sure, maybe ZNN, EJ, Gio and Det are good enough to carry the team through, but it'd be even better with Stras.

(2) Of course the decision is the decision and it's final.  That's not the issue either - the issue is that Rizzo clearly presumed at the beginning of the season that we probably weren't going to be a real contender and then didn't really think through how they might adjust as the Nats started to contend.  Maybe he did the right thing there - maybe he shouldn't reconsider, if you believe in the long-term goal, but to the extent he didn't reconsider, he took no steps to mitigate the impact on what's turning out to be a pretty incredible 2012 season.  Again, this isn't a "Fire Rizzo! He sucks!" point - it's just a fact.  Rizzo's strategy is pure sacrifice-now-for-later.  Maybe he's right.

(3) The clubhouse is not fine and won't be fine.  Of course, they're professionals so they're not going to go out in the media and complain - they also might grudgingly admit that he's a long-term asset, BUT I also believe they're going to ask in their quiet moments "What about me? What about my shot to win a championship?  Why isn't the team putting us in the best position to win right now?  I only have (2, 4, 6, 8, 10) years left in my career - how many more times will I have this chance?"  Don't think that's not weighing on guys like LaRoche and Werth and Gonzalez. 

And WPA - of course he might get lit up in the playoffs - life is a crapshoot.  Who do you think is more likely to get lit up in a World Series start against the Yankees - Detwiler or Stras?  You don't know and neither do I, but it seems to me if you're trying to win now, you want your best pitcher in the biggest game.

Don't get me wrong - I'm on board with shutting Stras down, and if I'm in Rizzo's chair I think I make the same call.  But pretending that it's done at no cost in the short-term or that our 2012 chances aren't impacted is silly.  Nobody says we can't win without him.  If you made Usain Bolt run 110 meters when everybody else runs 100, he might still win because he's just that fast, but nobody would argue that he wasn't at a disadvantage.

Said better than I ever could.

:clap:

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #963: August 22, 2012, 04:17:48 PM »
I think Linty's right here and you guys are trolling him because he's taking an anti-Rizzo stand.  I'm softer on the point and concede that there's no way of knowing whether this is the right move in the long-term and that it may well be the key to a long, sustained run of playoff appearances, but it's not like it's a no-cost move..

That said, pretending like it doesn't hurt our 2012 chances or that there was no other possible way to plan for this or that the clubhouse will be fine with it is pure homerism. 

In order, (1) it does hurt our 2012 chances and anybody who argues differently doesn't get baseball.  Yes, Smithian, the other 24 guys are good too and they'll try their damndest and maybe they're good enough to get it done without him, but suggesting that bemoaning the loss of Strasburg is somehow disrespectful to the other 24 misses the point.  In fact, the loss of Strasburg hurts precisely BECAUSE the other 24 are so good.  If the Nats were 25-0 in Strasburg's starts, but 42-56 in the other 98 games, none of this would matter.  Losing Strasburg is bad in the short-term BECAUSE the other 24 are so good.  Sure, maybe ZNN, EJ, Gio and Det are good enough to carry the team through, but it'd be even better with Stras.

(2) Of course the decision is the decision and it's final.  That's not the issue either - the issue is that Rizzo clearly presumed at the beginning of the season that we probably weren't going to be a real contender and then didn't really think through how they might adjust as the Nats started to contend.  Maybe he did the right thing there - maybe he shouldn't reconsider, if you believe in the long-term goal, but to the extent he didn't reconsider, he took no steps to mitigate the impact on what's turning out to be a pretty incredible 2012 season.  Again, this isn't a "Fire Rizzo! He sucks!" point - it's just a fact.  Rizzo's strategy is pure sacrifice-now-for-later.  Maybe he's right.

(3) The clubhouse is not fine and won't be fine.  Of course, they're professionals so they're not going to go out in the media and complain - they also might grudgingly admit that he's a long-term asset, BUT I also believe they're going to ask in their quiet moments "What about me? What about my shot to win a championship?  Why isn't the team putting us in the best position to win right now?  I only have (2, 4, 6, 8, 10) years left in my career - how many more times will I have this chance?"  Don't think that's not weighing on guys like LaRoche and Werth and Gonzalez. 

And WPA - of course he might get lit up in the playoffs - life is a crapshoot.  Who do you think is more likely to get lit up in a World Series start against the Yankees - Detwiler or Stras?  You don't know and neither do I*, but it seems to me if you're trying to win now, you want your best pitcher in the biggest game.

Don't get me wrong - I'm on board with shutting Stras down, and if I'm in Rizzo's chair I think I make the same call.  But pretending that it's done at no cost in the short-term or that our 2012 chances aren't impacted is silly.  Nobody says we can't win without him.  If you made Usain Bolt run 110 meters when everybody else runs 100, he might still win because he's just that fast, but nobody would argue that he wasn't at a disadvantage.

*edit:  But the Flying Spaghetti Monster and Chuck Norris do!


Yeah but what are you going to do about it? Whine like a baby or sack up and play?

That was my only point.

Really good post though ...


*Rocky and Bullwinkle would know

Offline LostYudite

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #964: August 22, 2012, 04:38:39 PM »

Yeah but what are you going to do about it? Whine like a baby or sack up and play?

That was my only point.

Really good post though ...


*Rocky and Bullwinkle would know

I can't do both?  ;) You're right, of course, but if I just accepted it and moved on, then I'd have to work instead of writing five-paragraph posts on a message board.  Nobody wants that.  ;)

 I admit, it was hard watching Stras last night in the context of the shutdown.  He was so dominant last night that there wasn't a lineup in MLB that could have beat him in any circumstance.  The Yankees weren't touching his stuff last night, the Rangers weren't.  That was Right Arm of God kind of stuff - and that makes me sympathetic to "Man, I wish we weren't going to shut him down."  It'll be what it is, and I hope the other guys take it as a "win it for Stras" point, but boy it'd be great to see WS Game 1 Stras v. CC showdown. 

I guess that's where I land ultimately - Playoffs should be all about "You bring your best, I'll bring my best, and we'll see what happens."  And what we're doing (for reasons I ultimately understand) is more like "We'll bring our best except for a guy who's SO GOOD we're afraid he might break."  I get it, but it's a bit like eating a salad tonight instead of the burger I want.  Good for me long-term, but not so great short-term.  Sure, I might get to eat the burger later, but still...

Which reminds me - Wimpy might know. Whether he does or not, he'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.

Hey! Wait!  Rizzo is the anti-Wimpy!  He'll gladly pay you NOW for a hamburger on Tuesday!  :lol:

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #965: August 22, 2012, 04:49:10 PM »
Yeah, Stras last night was audacious. But since I'm a born and raised Washingtonian, the total sum of my sports experience has been a giant  crap sandwich followed by fleeting moments of Euphoria - so  - I automatically defaulted to the lowest common denominator-

I thought, Holy hell, why'd he get lit up by the frickin phillies?

 :)
 
DC Fans, we complain, therefore we are ...

Damn a burger sounds yummy

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #966: August 22, 2012, 04:53:34 PM »
Mark Zuckerman ‏@MarkZuckerman
Davey Johnson suggests Stephen Strasburg will get 2, maybe 3 more starts before the shutdown.

Mark Zuckerman ‏@MarkZuckerman
Davey also said #Nats will let Strasburg know before he makes his final start, won't wait til after fact.

Offline spit

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #967: August 22, 2012, 04:56:52 PM »
will he still be on the 25 man? i want him to kick it in the dugout during the postseason and stuff

edit: what are the rules on who can chill in the dugout

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #968: August 22, 2012, 04:58:41 PM »
will he still be on the 25 man? i want him to kick it in the dugout during the postseason and stuff

edit: what are the rules on who can chill in the dugout

He'll likely be sent home.

I don't know how many guys you can have in the dugout... but I know it's not many over the 25 man limit.

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #969: August 22, 2012, 05:02:59 PM »
He'll likely be sent home.

I don't know how many guys you can have in the dugout... but I know it's not many over the 25 man limit.

Jordan didn't go home. I can't imagine they'd send Stras home.

Offline PC

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #970: August 22, 2012, 05:03:26 PM »
If it's just two, they won't even get to 160 innings.  Now, that's unforgivable and I'm for the shutdown but not even getting to 160 innings is terrible.  Does he have some sort of bonus in his contract for ERA or something?  If he doesn't pitch 162 innings (or one per team game) he doesn't have enough innings to qualify.

Zimmermann only got to enough because the Dodgers game wasn't made up.

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #971: August 22, 2012, 05:04:18 PM »
If it's just two, they won't even get to 160 innings.  Now, that's unforgivable and I'm for the shutdown but not even getting to 160 innings is terrible.  Does he have some sort of bonus in his contract for ERA or something?  If he doesn't pitch 162 innings (or one per team game) he doesn't have enough innings to qualify.

Zimmermann only got to enough because the Dodgers game wasn't made up.

Yeah, that can't be right

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #972: August 22, 2012, 05:04:32 PM »
He'll be on the 40 man, and it'll be september, so he will stay to enjoy the celebration for making the playoffs.  as for the playoffs, he may want to get away to avoid the media, or he may want to stick around to support his teammates.  I don't think inactive players can be in the dugout during a game. 

Offline Ed Stroud

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #973: August 22, 2012, 05:05:56 PM »
Yeah, that can't be right

Mark Zuckerman ‏@MarkZuckerman
Apologies, may have misunderstood Davey. On Strasburg, he said: "we would need another starter for I think two starts, maybe three."

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #974: August 22, 2012, 05:07:08 PM »
Mark Zuckerman ‏@MarkZuckerman
Apologies, may have misunderstood Davey. On Strasburg, he said: "we would need another starter for I think two starts, maybe three."

WTF?

LOL