Author Topic: Strasburg in October..  (Read 14392 times)

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Offline Smithian

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #900: August 22, 2012, 12:05:35 PM »
Can you please stop that nonsense,  or are you really putting him on the same level as a pinch hitter?
He is an amazing pitcher but he is still one player. Swap him and a pitcher on the Marlins and the Nationals would still be better than the Marlins.

Baseball is a TEAM game. We'll miss him when the margin is razor thin in the playoffs, but Strasburg isn't the single difference between winning the World Series or not.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #901: August 22, 2012, 12:06:39 PM »

Baseball is a TEAM game. We'll miss him when the margin is razor thin in the playoffs, but Strasburg isn't the single difference between winning the World Series or not.

Can you prove that he's not?

Offline Mathguy

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #902: August 22, 2012, 12:07:52 PM »
How about stopping the nonsense that "The Sky Is Falling ! "

Can you please stop that nonsense,  or are you really putting him on the same level as a pinch hitter?


Offline Smithian

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #903: August 22, 2012, 12:08:51 PM »
I'm just not going to waste the energy. I'm going to enjoy this ride for however long it lasts and not get caught up in the What If
Sanity!

:clap:

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #904: August 22, 2012, 12:09:05 PM »
How about stopping the nonsense that "The Sky Is Falling ! "



Citation please,  or is it easier to rant about exaggerated (read nonexistent) positions?

Offline Mathguy

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #905: August 22, 2012, 12:10:10 PM »
Dibble is old school.  Now there is so much more information on the health of athletes and how to extend their health so they as a resource are more valuable.  And of course, the idea of having a good life after sports is important.


I guess you haven't been around many professional athletes before.

There's a lot more Dibbles in the group than there are caring individuals.


Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #906: August 22, 2012, 12:11:26 PM »
Dibble is old school.  Now there is so much more information on the health of athletes and how to extend their health so they as a resource are more valuable.  And of course, the idea of having a good life after sports is important.




What exactly about stretching out 160-180 innings to cover the playoffs is going to prevent Strasburg for having a good quality of life after he retires?

Offline Mathguy

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #907: August 22, 2012, 12:12:38 PM »
Can't you just admit there are scientific reasons, based on past performances, for limiting a pitcher to 180 innings after TJ surgery ?

What exactly about stretching out 160-180 innings to cover the playoffs is going to prevent Strasburg for having a good quality of life after he retires?


Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #908: August 22, 2012, 12:14:08 PM »
Can't you just admit there are scientific reasons, based on past performances, for limiting a pitcher to 180 innings after TJ surgery ?



I don't want him to pitch past 180 innings.

I wanted them to stretch his innings out to make 180 fall in the WS. You seem to not read my post... and just put words in my mouth.

Offline tomterp

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #909: August 22, 2012, 12:18:08 PM »
Can you prove that he's not?

Stop trolling.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #910: August 22, 2012, 12:18:41 PM »
Can't you just admit there are scientific reasons, based on past performances, for limiting a pitcher to 180 innings after TJ surgery ?



There are also valid reason to limit them to
160, 155, 165, 175, 120...  They're just arbitrary caps, and if you want to claim that a 180 cap has more scientific validity than a 185 or 175 cap go ahead. If we're talking about player health being the absolutely most important factor,  then a 0 cap would make the most sense, but we're not,  it's about risk vs reward and absent actual studies the right answer doesn't seem knowable

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #911: August 22, 2012, 12:19:10 PM »
I don't want him to pitch past 180 innings.

I wanted them to stretch his innings out to make 180 fall in the WS.

But at what cost? more innings burned in the pen? Pen is already relied upon a lot.  Once September 1 comes, I guess you could have Stras pitch 3 innings, Lannan pitch 3 innings then do 3 innings for the pen every 5th day? :shrug:  Not sure how much that helps. A 6 man rotation takes innings away from Gio, JZim and Ejax, not sure you want that and I don't think skipping starts is the way to go.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #912: August 22, 2012, 12:19:16 PM »
Stop trolling.

Saying Strasburg is just another guy isn't trolling? Even in the slightest sense?

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #913: August 22, 2012, 12:20:54 PM »
But at what cost? more innings burned in the pen? Pen is already relied upon a lot.  Once September 1 comes, I guess you could have Stras pitch 3 innings, Lannan pitch 3 innings then do 3 innings for the pen every 5th day? :shrug:  Not sure how much that helps. A 6 man rotation takes innings away from Gio, JZim and Ejax, not sure you want that and I don't think skipping starts is the way to go.

I think there were ways, with off days, to structure the rotation so it didn't hurt the normal days of rest schedule for the other pitchers.

And I'm not talking about making this a common occurrence... but if they did that once or twice... and limited a couple of his outings to five innings instead of six, or six innings instead of seven, they would have easily had 15+ innings left over for him to use in the playoffs.

Offline Mathguy

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #914: August 22, 2012, 12:23:18 PM »
So lets say in 162 games he had 35 starts.  Then lets say there are another 5 starts for him in the playoffs & WS.  So in 40 starts, the Nats could have limited his innings pitched to 4-5 innings per game to reach 180 innings.  The Nationals are smart enough they could have seen that at the beginning of the season.  So there is a reason why they didn't limit him to 4-5 innings per game.  Maybe more starts at shorter length was more stressful on his arm and the number of starts was a limiting factor as well.  Maybe stress on the bullpen.  But whatever the reason, just accept he won't pitch in the playoffs this year.

I don't want him to pitch past 180 innings.

I wanted them to stretch his innings out to make 180 fall in the WS. You seem to not read my post... and just put words in my mouth.


Offline DC_Nats

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #915: August 22, 2012, 12:26:19 PM »

There's a lot more Dibbles in the group than there are caring individuals.

You should really pick a side because it underminds your credibility. They either care about the other 24 or they are not caring individuals. You seem to say they care only when it fits the conclusion you want or need to reach. It's obvious YOU haven't been around professional athletes if you don't think they care about their career and livelihood.

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #916: August 22, 2012, 12:26:31 PM »
I think there were ways, with off days, to structure the rotation so it didn't hurt the normal days of rest schedule for the other pitchers.

And I'm not talking about making this a common occurrence... but if they did that once or twice... and limited a couple of his outings to five innings instead of six, or six innings instead of seven, they would have easily had 15+ innings left over for him to use in the playoffs.


Other than maybe 1 or 2 occasions, I don't get the sense that they've pushed him much if at all this year . How many times has he even pitched into the 7th inning? I can only think of a couple times all year. And of course, not all innings are created equally. His last start, even though he only gave up 1 run was laborious, as opposed to last night which was like a walk in the park for him. 

They did push his start back after the All Star break and they did have a long ass stretch of games with no off days. Not sure how much tinkering they could have done without affecting everyone else.

Don't they have 4 off days in the next couple of weeks? Maybe some shifting will be done then? :shrug:

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #917: August 22, 2012, 12:27:28 PM »
So lets say in 162 games he had 35 starts.  Then lets say there are another 5 starts for him in the playoffs & WS.  So in 40 starts, the Nats could have limited his innings pitched to 4-5 innings per game to reach 180 innings.  The Nationals are smart enough they could have seen that at the beginning of the season.  So there is a reason why they didn't limit him to 4-5 innings per game.  Maybe more starts at shorter length was more stressful on his arm and the number of starts was a limiting factor as well.  Maybe stress on the bullpen.  But whatever the reason, just accept he won't pitch in the playoffs this year.




Thankfully it's a message board... and when we're not being called idiots... we're allowed to express our displeasure with a situation that some of us saw as preventable.

It may be unavoidable now... but that doesn't mean we have to stop discussing why it shouldn't have gotten to this point, in the first place.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #918: August 22, 2012, 12:28:56 PM »
You should really pick a side because it underminds your credibility. They either care about the other 24 or they are not caring individuals. You seem to say they care only when it fits the conclusion you want or need to reach. It's obvious YOU haven't been around professional athletes if you don't think they care about their career and livelihood.

I work in the media. Trust me when I say I wish I knew less professional athletes.

While they may be blessed with athletic skill... many are lacking in character/intelligence/common decency for their fellow man.

Strasburg won't be one of the 25 in the post season, in that sense, he'll be treated like an NFL punter/kicker when it comes to the playoffs.

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #919: August 22, 2012, 12:31:13 PM »
I work in the media. Trust me when I say I wish I knew less professional athletes.

While they may be blessed with athletic skill... many are lacking in character/intelligence/common decency for their fellow man.

Strasburg won't be one of the 25 in the post season, in that sense, he'll be treated like an NFL punter/kicker when it comes to the playoffs.

Our very own liquored up idiot kicker - awesome

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #920: August 22, 2012, 12:31:44 PM »
Our very own liquored up idiot kicker - awesome

LOL. I don't think he's Mike Vanderjagt.

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #921: August 22, 2012, 12:32:32 PM »
LOL. I don't think he's Mike Vanderjagt.

That was like my favorite Peyton Manning moment ever ...

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #922: August 22, 2012, 12:40:29 PM »
It's not like I'm even saying anything that shocking about locker room culture. I know for a fact that at least one other user here could back me up on what it's like... because they work for a team.

It's not exactly a well kept secret how primitive attitudes about health and sacrifice in locker rooms can be.

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #923: August 22, 2012, 12:41:00 PM »
Real mixed message on Strasburg last night.

We'll let you sit around for near an hour and go back out and pitch a lot of innings.. but we don't trust you enough to come up with a plan to stretch your innings into the playoffs.

I was on board with shutting him down till last night. If they think he's perfectly fine to sit around and come back and pitch after a long delay... something that always comes with a high degree of risk (bullpen innings are not comparable to on the mound innings)... they should be fine with limiting him to 3 inning stints till he makes the playoffs with 20+ innings left in the tank.

The original plan on Strasburg is becoming clearer by the day... and that is that Rizzo never thought this team would compete this year... and that Strasburg would be shut down in a non-playofff atmosphere. Unfortunately, as we all know... Rizzo is not exactly flexible in his opinion. It'll likely come back to bite the Nats in the ass this year. Which is too bad. Lets hope the hubris shown by Rizzo/some of the fans on this message board that the Nats will automatically be promised winning seasons in the future does not prove to be fatal in the future.

I think a novel idea would be to allow him to get to this innings limit they have, see how he feels and how his arm reacts, and then act accordingly.

Offline tomterp

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #924: August 22, 2012, 12:45:11 PM »
It's not like I'm even saying anything that shocking about locker room culture. I know for a fact that at least one other user here could back me up on what it's like... because they work for a team.

It's not exactly a well kept secret how primitive attitudes about health and sacrifice in locker rooms can be.

That's the culture of sports.  But there is an element I think where they all profess to say the "right thing" about giving 110%  :roll: or making all possible sacrifice, but deep down they know it's a bit of a spiel.  Sure, many legitimately buy in to the program, but I would contend that a confidential poll would show more interest in long term career and health than in "win now", as compared to interviews or other reports where they can be identified.