Author Topic: Strasburg in October..  (Read 19973 times)

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Offline Smithian

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #875: August 22, 2012, 12:11:45 AM »
A talk show host that calls Bryce a "douche" and a talk show host that has never followed the Nats? :shrug:
Exactly. I saw somewhere that Dibs was going on that show and I expected they'd welcome him with open arms and it would be a "Nats suck" party



Offline Baseball is Life

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #878: August 22, 2012, 09:21:48 AM »
I've seen better writing by high school kids.

I am so over this discussion.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #879: August 22, 2012, 09:37:12 AM »
Real mixed message on Strasburg last night.

We'll let you sit around for near an hour and go back out and pitch a lot of innings.. but we don't trust you enough to come up with a plan to stretch your innings into the playoffs.

I was on board with shutting him down till last night. If they think he's perfectly fine to sit around and come back and pitch after a long delay... something that always comes with a high degree of risk (bullpen innings are not comparable to on the mound innings)... they should be fine with limiting him to 3 inning stints till he makes the playoffs with 20+ innings left in the tank.

The original plan on Strasburg is becoming clearer by the day... and that is that Rizzo never thought this team would compete this year... and that Strasburg would be shut down in a non-playofff atmosphere. Unfortunately, as we all know... Rizzo is not exactly flexible in his opinion. It'll likely come back to bite the Nats in the ass this year. Which is too bad. Lets hope the hubris shown by Rizzo/some of the fans on this message board that the Nats will automatically be promised winning seasons in the future does not prove to be fatal in the future.

Offline Glockypoo

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #880: August 22, 2012, 09:40:39 AM »
Real mixed message on Strasburg last night.

We'll let you sit around for near an hour and go back out and pitch a lot of innings.. but we don't trust you enough to come up with a plan to stretch your innings into the playoffs.

I was on board with shutting him down till last night. If they think he's perfectly fine to sit around and come back and pitch after a long delay... something that always comes with a high degree of risk (bullpen innings are not comparable to on the mound innings)... they should be fine with limiting him to 3 inning stints till he makes the playoffs with 20+ innings left in the tank.

I had the exact same shift in thought when I saw him start to warm up after the rain delay.

I was certain they'd shut him down after the tarp went on. Even said as much to my father-in-law.


Offline Mathguy

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #881: August 22, 2012, 09:58:07 AM »
Your thoughts here are just not true.  Strasburg continued throwing during the rain delay

We'll let you sit around for near an hour and go back out and pitch a lot of innings.. but we don't trust you enough to come up with a plan to stretch your innings into the playoffs.


Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #882: August 22, 2012, 10:01:32 AM »
Probably should read rest of the post first.

:thumbs:

Offline PebbleBall

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #883: August 22, 2012, 10:04:49 AM »
Real mixed message on Strasburg last night.

We'll let you sit around for near an hour and go back out and pitch a lot of innings.. but we don't trust you enough to come up with a plan to stretch your innings into the playoffs.

I was on board with shutting him down till last night. If they think he's perfectly fine to sit around and come back and pitch after a long delay... something that always comes with a high degree of risk (bullpen innings are not comparable to on the mound innings)... they should be fine with limiting him to 3 inning stints till he makes the playoffs with 20+ innings left in the tank.

The original plan on Strasburg is becoming clearer by the day... and that is that Rizzo never thought this team would compete this year... and that Strasburg would be shut down in a non-playofff atmosphere. Unfortunately, as we all know... Rizzo is not exactly flexible in his opinion. It'll likely come back to bite the Nats in the ass this year. Which is too bad. Lets hope the hubris shown by Rizzo/some of the fans on this message board that the Nats will automatically be promised winning seasons in the future does not prove to be fatal in the future.

Could also mean that Rizzo isn't the force behind the shutdown.

Offline LostYudite

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #884: August 22, 2012, 10:16:08 AM »
Real mixed message on Strasburg last night.

We'll let you sit around for near an hour and go back out and pitch a lot of innings.. but we don't trust you enough to come up with a plan to stretch your innings into the playoffs.

I was on board with shutting him down till last night. If they think he's perfectly fine to sit around and come back and pitch after a long delay... something that always comes with a high degree of risk (bullpen innings are not comparable to on the mound innings)... they should be fine with limiting him to 3 inning stints till he makes the playoffs with 20+ innings left in the tank.

The original plan on Strasburg is becoming clearer by the day... and that is that Rizzo never thought this team would compete this year... and that Strasburg would be shut down in a non-playofff atmosphere. Unfortunately, as we all know... Rizzo is not exactly flexible in his opinion. It'll likely come back to bite the Nats in the ass this year. Which is too bad. Lets hope the hubris shown by Rizzo/some of the fans on this message board that the Nats will automatically be promised winning seasons in the future does not prove to be fatal in the future.

I'm with you on the bottom line here, which is that Rizzo's play at this point is "take a hit to our chances this year in the hopes that it pays future dividends."  The downside risk is as you say - this could be our best chance to win it all, and we could end up falling short in the future for a bunch of other reasons (less healthy, lack of development, etc.)  I also agree that Rizzo clearly thought that it would play out more or less like ZNN - we'd be a plucky almost-ran 85-win team that had serious potential for '13.  And I think you're right that Rizzo's already made his decision come hell or high water.

The only place I would quibble is in the three-innings-per-start thing.  He's up to 145 innings after yesterday.  3 per start over 7-8 more starts puts him at 166-169 headed into the playoffs.  At that point, I think you'd want him to go full bore, which puts him at 36-42 more (figuring 6-7 starts at 6 innings per), so that's a grand total of 202-211 for the year.  At that point, all you're really saving is the 20 or so from the regular season starts - you may as well go ahead and just let him throw.  To me, all the creativity over ways to diddle with his overall number of innings is just that - sort of fiddling around.  The time for that was in May, when it could have had a bigger impact.  Now, there's really only two decisions - either let him throw and take your best shot and take the long-term risk, or shut him down, hope for the best this year and hope that that helps with long-term health.

As for last night - I think that was driven more by the fact that they had an all-hands-on-deck effort the night before than it was by whether or not they thought pitching Stras was a good idea.  Given their druthers, I'd bet they would have preferred to sit him down, but since Stammen had gone 2 the night before and everybody else did one, asking the bullpen to put up 7+ would seem excessive.  That, and since clearly Stras wanted to go and looked so good up till the rain delay, they probably made a tactical decision that contradicts their long term plan.

Offline Mathguy

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #885: August 22, 2012, 10:20:26 AM »
No the rest of the post is meaningless.  The point is there wasn't a cool down period for Strasburg because he kept throwing.  The reason he kept throwing was to emmulate not having a break in the game for him.  So he sort of pitched closer to 9 innings last night

Probably should read rest of the post first.

:thumbs:


Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #886: August 22, 2012, 10:26:42 AM »
Yeah. I mentioned that in the post.


Offline Kevrock

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #887: August 22, 2012, 10:39:22 AM »
No the rest of the post is meaningless.  The point is there wasn't a cool down period for Strasburg because he kept throwing.  The reason he kept throwing was to emmulate not having a break in the game for him.  So he sort of pitched closer to 9 innings last night

Linty covered this. Bullpen innings, even if he threw a full simulation inning in the rain, are not the same as in-game innings.

Either go by the book or throw it out the window.

Offline spit

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #888: August 22, 2012, 10:43:29 AM »
He's gonna get shut down.


Offline Smithian

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #889: August 22, 2012, 11:31:19 AM »
Stephen Strasburg is one player out of 25 on the best team in baseball.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #890: August 22, 2012, 11:32:44 AM »
Stephen Strasburg is one player out of 25 on the best team in baseball.

The best player on the best baseball team.

Your Nats fandom has gone to your head if you don't think he's one of, if not the most, important cog in the Nats machine.

Don't believe me? Ask the players how they really feel about it.

And no, no matter what PC answer they give... they do not understand. They're athletes that train to win. To sacrifice their bodies for the good of the team. Not one of them understands shutting down their star player. So spare me the moral speeches on how they understand what's best for the organization... because they don't care. They only care about the 24 other guys inside that locker room.

In fact, I promise you that the players are closer to sharing the opinion that Dibble expressed than any of us would care to believe.

Offline Smithian

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #891: August 22, 2012, 11:39:44 AM »
The best player on the best baseball team.

Your Nats fandom has gone to your head if you don't think he's one of, if not the most, important cog in the Nats machine.

Don't believe me? Ask the players how they really feel about it.

And no, no matter what PC answer they give... they do not understand. They're athletes that train to win. To sacrifice their bodies for the good of the team. Not one of them understands shutting down their star player. So spare me the moral speeches on how they understand what's best for the organization... because they don't care. They only care about the 24 other guys inside that locker room.
He's very important, but still one player. He only goes every five days and we still have two frontline ace caliber pitchers to carry us in the playoffs. I'd be more worried losing Zimmerman.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #892: August 22, 2012, 11:41:11 AM »
He's very important, but still one player. He only goes every five days and we still have two frontline ace caliber pitchers to carry us in the playoffs. I'd be more worried losing Zimmerman.

A minute ago you just called him another one of 25.

There's a reason the Nats have been hammered by the media and all of baseball for how they're planning on handling this. It's not the right way to do it, if you care at all about winning this year.

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #893: August 22, 2012, 11:47:28 AM »
A player is never going to want to be shut down other players are not going to like it when he does. This is hardly a revelation.

But what are they going to do about it? What are we going to do about it? The decision has been made, it's done. That's it.

The other guys are just going to have to step up like they've done all year. Will they like it that he's shut down? No, but if I played for the Nats, I'd be pretty sick and tired of people automatically assuming that my team was doomed because Stras is being shut down. What am I ? Chopped liver?

Short of winning the World Series this year, there's literally no way of knowing if this decision was the right one or not anyway, so why waste the energy?





Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #894: August 22, 2012, 11:50:54 AM »
A player is never going to want to be shut down other players are not going to like it when he does. This is hardly a revelation.

But what are they going to do about it? What are we going to do about it? The decision has been made, it's done. That's it.


That's what's sad about it... they had plenty of time to alter the program to make it work.

Hell, they could have taken the All-Star break and modified it so he'd be hitting 160 heading into the playoffs with plenty of innings to spare.

There were ways to make it work. The fact they didn't budge or explore ways to extend him is what burns the most.

Offline Smithian

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #895: August 22, 2012, 11:52:48 AM »
A minute ago you just called him another one of 25.

There's a reason the Nats have been hammered by the media and all of baseball for how they're planning on handling this. It's not the right way to do it, if you care at all about winning this year.
He is very important, but still 1 of 25.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #896: August 22, 2012, 11:55:16 AM »
He is very important, but still 1 of 25.

Can you please stop that nonsense,  or are you really putting him on the same level as a pinch hitter?

Offline DC_Nats

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #897: August 22, 2012, 12:01:28 PM »
And no, no matter what PC answer they give... they do not understand. They're athletes that train to win. To sacrifice their bodies for the good of the team. Not one of them understands shutting down their star player. So spare me the moral speeches on how they understand what's best for the organization... because they don't care. They only care about the 24 other guys inside that locker room.

In fact, I promise you that the players are closer to sharing the opinion that Dibble expressed than any of us would care to believe.

I'll argue the exact opposite in fact. These guys are not just "athletes trained to win" but nice try at turning these human beings into one-dimentional robots. They are also husbands and fathers who think about their family's future. The PC thing for a player to say is what the fans want to hear about sacrificing for the sake of winning. But, make no mistake, they understand that this is also a business and knowing that management will not sacrifice one individual's body, career, and livelihood for one shot at winning is not only understood but more likely applauded.  These guys have confidence in themselves and the team and believe they can win not only this year, with or without Strasburg, but for years to come.  And as a Nats fan in it for the long haul, I agree.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #898: August 22, 2012, 12:03:14 PM »
I'll argue the exact opposite in fact. These guys are not just "athletes trained to win" but nice try at turning these human beings into one-dimentional robots. They are also husbands and fathers who think about their family's future. The PC thing for a player to say is what the fans want to hear about sacrificing for the sake of winning. But, make no mistake, they understand that this is also a business and knowing that management will not sacrifice one individual's body, career, and livelihood for one shot at winning is not only understood but more likely applauded.  These guys have confidence in themselves and the team and believe they can win not only this year, with or without Strasburg, but for years to come.  And as a Nats fan in it for the long haul, I agree.

I guess you haven't been around many professional athletes before.

There's a lot more Dibbles in the group than there are caring individuals.

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #899: August 22, 2012, 12:04:17 PM »
That's what's sad about it... they had plenty of time to alter the program to make it work.

Hell, they could have taken the All-Star break and modified it so he'd be hitting 160 heading into the playoffs with plenty of innings to spare.

There were ways to make it work. The fact they didn't budge or explore ways to extend him is what burns the most.

I have heard and read time and time again that they had no intentions of doing that because the prescribed rehab was to pitch him on his regular schedule and rotation. They wanted to keep him to a very specific routine. Modifying his schedule to allow him to continue to pitch to the playoffs at best is conjecture too, there's no guarantee he remains effective if your shifting start days. Maybe it makes things worse? Nobody knows.

Look I get it, I'm a born and raised Washingtonian, an original Senators fan, this is the first winning baseball team of my lifetime and I've been around for more than a minute. But there's literally nothing I can do about Stras being shut down and I simply refuse to let the complete and utter joy of watching this team play be affected by something I have zero control over anyway. 

Of course the Nats have a better "chance" with him in the rotation than not, but there is literally no way of knowing if having him in the playoffs would make a difference this year or not.

I'm just not going to waste the energy. I'm going to enjoy this ride for however long it lasts and not get caught up in the What If