Author Topic: Strasburg in October..  (Read 26234 times)

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Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #425: July 11, 2012, 10:35:33 AM »
Link?

Link?

I usually agree with Linty on arm injury issues -- at least on the pitching mechanics end. I'm still hoping he elaborates on what Carroll's angle is specifically.

I can't go back to the original tweets as they around Feb. 1... but he was asking on Twitter what was the rationale for having Strasburg pitch 160 innings.

I tweeted at him that's what they capped Zimmermann at, he said...

Quote
@injuryexpert

@Lintyfresh85 That's poor rationale.

Then I posted a MASN link about Strasburg being put on the JZ plan, and Carroll responded with...

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@injuryexpert

@Lintyfresh85 Ugh. I HATE one-size-fits-all solutions.

Then he went on a rant why it's a bad idea, but because it happened around Feb. 2 and didn't @ me, I don't have it on my timeline, and his timeline only goes back to Feb. 5.

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #426: July 11, 2012, 10:38:58 AM »
Hmm, was hoping he did an in-depth analysis. Love me some Will Carroll.

Edit: Oh, great. Trolls ran Will off Twitter.

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #427: July 11, 2012, 10:41:22 AM »
Quote from: Will Carroll
There's also the strict 160-inning limit. the Nats have set for him. With as good as Strasburg has been for a contending Nats franchise, I don't see how they'll keep him to this limit. Do the playoffs count? Managing those innings, whether limited or not, is going to be key for Steve McCatty and Johnson. If Strasburg has even a minor elbow injury, this could be a good time to skip a start or two, pushing those innings a bit deeper into the season. This doesn't appear to be a major injury, but as Kerry Wood's retirement reminds us, nothing comes automatic to even the most talented of pitchers. That even Strasburg is being treated with best guesses and arbitrary guidelines reminds us just how far there is to go.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/will_carroll/05/21/fantasy-baseball-injuries/index.html#ixzz20KDgW1hQ

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #428: July 11, 2012, 10:44:22 AM »
Hmm, was hoping he did an in-depth analysis. Love me some Will Carroll.

Edit: Oh, great. Trolls ran Will off Twitter.

It's kind of funny that we were having the exact same conversation five months ago. :lol:

I guess we really do talk ourselves into circles on WNFF!

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #429: July 11, 2012, 10:52:54 AM »
:lol: Nice.

Thanks for the links. I wonder what approach he would suggest from the start, though. 

Offline blue911

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #430: July 11, 2012, 11:01:58 AM »
I'm just echoing the statements of Will Carroll, noted injury expert.


I know.

Will Carroll believes that any team that doesn't subscribe to bio-mechanic analysis is wrong regardless of the situation. The problem lies is that the main bio-mechanic advocates (James Andrews & Rick Peterson) are the originators of limiting the workload of young pitchers. Carroll has never stated that the Strasburg rehab is wrong or invalid but simply he didn't understand the magic 160 number.

Offline imref

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #431: July 11, 2012, 12:39:58 PM »
Olney:

http://insider.espn.go.com/mlb/blog/_/name/olney_buster/id/8155998/how-washington-nationals-use-stephen-strasburg-tops-second-half-storylines-mlb

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An All-Star player grinned and shook his head on the field the other day, chatting about the Nationals' plans to shut down Strasburg after he reaches his pre-determined limit of innings -- right in the most critical stage in the organization's history.

"If they (the Nationals) actually do that, I'll actually have more respect for them, because that's going to take some serious guts," said the All-Star, chuckling at what will be the most discussed and dissected decision in the second half of the season.

Strasburg is one of the best pitchers on the planet, with a 9-4 record and a 2.82 ERA in what is his first full season in the big leagues, and the inning he threw in the All-Star Game on Tuesday was his 100th of the season. Soon after he reaches 160 innings, the Nationals' intent is to bench him for the rest of the year, and they have insisted privately and publicly that this is what they will do, despite all that is at stake for the franchise -- a playoff berth, postseason success, future ticket sales. Their plan is to trade short-term benefit for the long-term health of Strasburg, who is just a couple of years removed from Tommy John surgery.

The Nationals could stretch that innings limit some, as a rival executive noted recently, but ultimately, if their intention is to protect Strasburg, they are poised for a very difficult choice. He's on track to reach his innings limit sometime in the last couple of weeks of August, just as the playoff race begins to heat up, and for Strasburg -- who is extremely competitive and also a very private person -- this will be a difficult time, as he suddenly is driven into the vortex of Old School vs. New School national debate.

During the past decade, almost all teams have adopted innings limits for their young and developing pitchers, but Strasburg's stature and situation is bound to turn into a very, very big deal.

Offline MorseTheHorse

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #432: July 11, 2012, 01:00:17 PM »
“Well, they’re gonna have to rip the ball out of my hands, that’s all I can say,” Strasburg answered.

This quote is a BIG deal.  I've said before and I'll say again (I mean we are going in circles here but oh well)...there is the injury risk in pitching Stras past 160.  There is also risk in not pitching him.  It could lead to disharmony in the clubhouse, between Stras and the Nats, between the Nats and their fans (altho it's looking at least now that most fans will be ok with shutting him down). 

Offline tomterp

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #433: July 11, 2012, 01:06:20 PM »
there is the injury risk in pitching Stras past 160.  There is also risk in not pitching him. 

Asymetrical risk levels, however.

Offline Baseball is Life

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #434: July 11, 2012, 01:29:04 PM »
“Well, they’re gonna have to rip the ball out of my hands, that’s all I can say,” Strasburg answered.

This quote is a BIG deal.  I've said before and I'll say again (I mean we are going in circles here but oh well)...there is the injury risk in pitching Stras past 160.  There is also risk in not pitching him.  It could lead to disharmony in the clubhouse, between Stras and the Nats, between the Nats and their fans (altho it's looking at least now that most fans will be ok with shutting him down). 

Some players might gripe about shutting him down but I think that's overblown. I suspect more players will respect the Nats for doing what's right for the player's health and career.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #435: July 11, 2012, 03:00:06 PM »
“Well, they’re gonna have to rip the ball out of my hands, that’s all I can say,” Strasburg answered.

This quote is a BIG deal.  I've said before and I'll say again (I mean we are going in circles here but oh well)...there is the injury risk in pitching Stras past 160.  There is also risk in not pitching him.  It could lead to disharmony in the clubhouse, between Stras and the Nats, between the Nats and their fans (altho it's looking at least now that most fans will be ok with shutting him down). 

Do you think there is some point, any point, past which it's not OK to pitch Strasburg?  200 innings?  240 if the Nats make the WS?

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #436: July 11, 2012, 03:05:00 PM »
“Well, they’re gonna have to rip the ball out of my hands, that’s all I can say,” Strasburg answered.

This quote is a BIG deal.  I've said before and I'll say again (I mean we are going in circles here but oh well)...there is the injury risk in pitching Stras past 160.  There is also risk in not pitching him.  It could lead to disharmony in the clubhouse, between Stras and the Nats, between the Nats and their fans (altho it's looking at least now that most fans will be ok with shutting him down). 

You're worse than Phil Wood.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #437: July 11, 2012, 03:06:03 PM »
Apparently Fangraphs doesn't think houston's Lannan for Strasburg switch would work out as well as WAR seems to think it would.

;)

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #438: July 11, 2012, 03:25:30 PM »

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #439: July 11, 2012, 03:26:31 PM »
get a new starter

Offline sportsfan882

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #440: July 11, 2012, 03:29:29 PM »

Offline houston-nat

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #441: July 11, 2012, 03:32:45 PM »
Apparently Fangraphs doesn't think houston's Lannan for Strasburg switch would work out as well as WAR seems to think it would.

;)

Sometimes I gotta :stir:

Offline Obed_Marsh

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #442: July 11, 2012, 03:39:56 PM »
“Well, they’re gonna have to rip the ball out of my hands, that’s all I can say,” Strasburg answered.

About time somone in the media covered this angle. I have been bringing it up for forever.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #443: July 11, 2012, 03:42:27 PM »
About time somone in the media covered this angle. I have been bringing it up for forever.


Strasburg will dutifully sit down on the bench and watch. Because that's who he is.

If that's really how he felt, he never would have let himself get pulled in the third inning. He would have walked out to the mound and started warming up.

Offline Obed_Marsh

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #444: July 11, 2012, 03:47:26 PM »
Different situations. He wouldn't show up a coach by ignoring the hook but there is plenty of time to provide feedback behind the scenes when the shutdown directive gets passed down. Also Strasburg's attitude has a lot to do with it both in sense of how he heals and also the diagnosis. It won't get him into the playoffs but it will have an effect on this so called "160" innings guestimate everyone is throwing around.

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #445: July 11, 2012, 03:50:17 PM »
Strasburg will dutifully sit down on the bench and watch. Because that's who he is.

If that's really how he felt, he never would have let himself get pulled in the third inning. He would have walked out to the mound and started warming up.

These situations aren't similar at all.  :crazy:

If Rizzo wanted, this would have given him an excuse to blow up Strasburg's arm. Of course he's already backed himself pretty far into a corner with the talk of a limit.

Offline Obed_Marsh

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #446: July 11, 2012, 03:53:33 PM »
Our medical staff didn't do it. Came from the guy who did the operation and designed the rehab.

A limit one fails to discuss doesn't really mean much other than for peception sake it should likely be a even number. ;) I am sure there is something they have in mind but don't believe for a second it is a simple number like 160.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #447: July 11, 2012, 04:00:15 PM »
A limit one fails to discuss doesn't really mean much other than for peception sake it should likely be a even number. ;) I am sure there is something they have in mind but don't believe for a second it is a simple number like 160.

Uh ... what? The limit is a number. It may not be 160, but anything over 170 is asking for issues. 160 is a fair number because it's the number they set for JZ and they've been following his rehab to the letter it seems.

Strasburg will go to the bench quietly. He will not make much of a fuss, if it all. He will know it's coming. This talk of prying the ball out of his hands is simply pandering to fans.

Offline Obed_Marsh

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #448: July 11, 2012, 04:06:04 PM »
If they just used some stock number our medical staff and training is as bad as people say. Sports medicine is not such a hard science you can project its outcome that far in advance. It requires incremental measurement, analysis, and adjustment. It doesn't change the principal but implying a hard number is gross oversimplification for the feeble minded.

Offline LostYudite

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #449: July 11, 2012, 04:13:18 PM »
This talk of prying the ball out of his hands is simply pandering to fans.

And some reflection of how he actually feels - I'm sure he, if left to his own devices, would happily throw 330 innings this year if it meant winning a world series.  But that's really the whole point.  This isn't a matter for debate (except among us idiots on message boards) or up for a vote.  The front office has to protect its long-term future by protecting the marquee franchise arm from himself. 

"Tear the ball from my hands?"  Ok - sure. 

But I agree that when it happens, he'll say "I understand what they're doing - I don't like it and I'd rather be out there going to war with my teammates every five days, but it's their decision, not mine.  Even without me, our guys are poised to win the whole thing - Gio, Zimm, EJ and Detwiler have been great and will be great in the playoffs. I'm going to be rooting hard the rest of the way, and ready to help out in any way if I can and looking forward to leading the Nats in their defense of our World Series title in 2013."