Author Topic: Strasburg in October..  (Read 18011 times)

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Offline tomterp

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #375: July 06, 2012, 05:21:29 PM »
Tom: Yes there is more risk to Stras pitching in October, I agree.  There is also more reward than pitching a game in June. 

Also, most people are advocating resting him some during the season so he can pitch in October and still not go much over 160( or atleast much over say 180).  I have yet to hear people claim this would be medically irresponsible, it seems rejections to this strategy are based more on worrying about his effectiveness (due to rust?) or our ability to even make the playoffs if we have him skip a few starts.  But perhaps I'm wrong, is there medical opinion out there that this strategy would be dangerous?

Two arguments against would be:

1- To the extent you shift innings from him now to allocate to the playoffs, you diminish your very chances of making those playoffs.
2- Stopping him now isn't really lettting him rest and recover if you have to keep him "warm" by throwing in between and on the day of his skipped starts.  If you're going to shut him down, better to do it in the conventional way, and have him well rested for spring training.
Or in other words, 160 innings before shutdown is less stress than say 130 innings followed by a warm period, then cranking back up for 30 more.

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #376: July 06, 2012, 05:22:29 PM »
I can guarantee you it won't come down to what the fans want - Rizzo couldn't care less. The doctor won't "okay" it - he's already prescribed a course for rehab - that was one of the main thrusts of Boz's article. It won't be Strasburg's choice either. He will *always* want to play - and Rizzo won't care.

Have Strasburg with a 2.5 ERA in April and May of next year and the fans will get over it.

Yes, I think there's an obvious choice.  It's going to come down to what Strasburg wants, what the players want, and what the fans want.  If he's healthy he probably won't even want to discuss it.  If the doctors ok it, and it benefits the team in a pennant race, I don't think they can turn it down.  It's an old argument and Boz totally dismissed it, but no matter how methodical and well built you are chances to win are ultimately unpredictable.  It's obviously not without risk but I think that in the situation the Nats were still at or near the top of the NL in September that at that point it will be an easy choice.

I was listening to the crowd in the 9th last night and thinking about this.  I honestly don't know which is more important to the future of the franchise - building on the momentum they have with the fans right now or being ultra careful with Strasburg.  You can shrug that off, but if they shut him down they're dealing with serious risk of damaging something they've worked on all season long on the field and off. 


Offline GMUNat

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #377: July 06, 2012, 05:39:24 PM »
Skip some starts, let him pitch 5 innings in some, then let him finish the year with 180 IP. Then let him pitch in October. He won't die because he pitched 180 IP.

Offline Baseball is Life

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #378: July 06, 2012, 05:49:07 PM »
Classic. There's a right way and a wrong way and anybody who's not on board with BiL is doing it wrong. Dude, I agree with you on this and you make me want to disagree just to nag you.  Are you this insufferable in your actual life?


No, I am actually more insufferable in real life. Thanks for asking.

I actually agree with you that the reason (but not the only reason) you put the health of your players first is to maximize their contributions to the team over the length of their contract. Religion has nothing to do with it. Maybe ethics, but not religion. But if that doesn't appeal to you how about the damage it will do to your team's reputation in the industry. For example, a team that doesn't care about the health of its players will not be respected by FA or draftees who can blow it off and go to college.

Offline Baseball is Life

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #379: July 06, 2012, 05:50:11 PM »
Skip some starts, let him pitch 5 innings in some, then let him finish the year with 180 IP. Then let him pitch in October. He won't die because he pitched 180 IP.

We're not really worried about him dying. Just his elbow.

Offline Baseball is Life

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #380: July 06, 2012, 05:51:20 PM »
We should stick with the argument Rizzo is making. Strasburg is still in rehab. Rehab for this condition says 160 innings this year, not more. It's prudent medical practice refined over 30+ years.

I personally think Rizzo is right, that the chance of ruining Stras's future is greater than the chance that Strasburg will be the difference maker on a deep drive into the playoffs.

Gio, Zimnn, and Jackson could take us as far as we are going to go anyway.



Thank you. This person gets it.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #381: July 06, 2012, 06:13:01 PM »
Two arguments against would be:

1- To the extent you shift innings from him now to allocate to the playoffs, you diminish your very chances of making those playoffs.
2- Stopping him now isn't really lettting him rest and recover if you have to keep him "warm" by throwing in between and on the day of his skipped starts.  If you're going to shut him down, better to do it in the conventional way, and have him well rested for spring training.
Or in other words, 160 innings before shutdown is less stress than say 130 innings followed by a warm period, then cranking back up for 30 more.

1. That is a good point, the counter argument is that we have a softer schedule coming up, we need Stras in October when every game is must win.
2. What if Stras sprains an ankle and can't land on it for four weeks so he is limited to long tosses, do we shut him down for the season or can he come back in that case?

Offline nats2playoffs

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #382: July 06, 2012, 06:13:22 PM »



Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #384: July 06, 2012, 06:35:43 PM »
This person gets it. :rofl:


Make fun if you want but this is the critical decision that will define whether this season was a success or a failure.  Nothing else Rizzo does this year will have the long term impact on this franchise.  The plan for Strasburg needs to be robustly debated and all sides must be heard.

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #385: July 06, 2012, 07:03:45 PM »
As long as "all sides" doesn't include a bunch of fans on a message board. Rizzo makes his own decisions (thank God), and his current plan is based on the best medical advice. Rizzo doesn't flake out, neither do the Lerners. 

If they did, this team would look more like the Redskins, and I'd be doing something else on Summer nights.

Make fun if you want but this is the critical decision that will define whether this season was a success or a failure.  Nothing else Rizzo does this year will have the long term impact on this franchise.  The plan for Strasburg needs to be robustly debated and all sides must be heard.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #386: July 06, 2012, 07:06:37 PM »
As long as "all sides" doesn't include a bunch of fans on a message board. Rizzo makes his own decisions (thank God), and his current plan is based on the best medical advice. Rizzo doesn't flake out, neither do the Lerners. 

If they did, this team would look more like the Redskins, and I'd be doing something else on Summer nights.


What about the paying customers?  Do I get a refund on tickets if they shut down Stras?

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #387: July 06, 2012, 07:08:02 PM »
No one ever guaranteed you that Stras would pitch all season (in fact, they said he wouldn't), or that we'd make the playoffs.

We're 16 games over. I'm trusting the guys that got us there.

What about the paying customers?  Do I get a refund on tickets if they shut down Stras?


Offline Obed_Marsh

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #388: July 06, 2012, 09:06:44 PM »
I am just waiting for the conspiracy theorists to claim the heat issues was just an elaborate ploy to ensure Strasburg pitches until we have clinched a playoff spot.

Offline Fan037

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #389: July 06, 2012, 09:18:46 PM »
I agree with what Boswell said in his column today.  Shut him down - playoffs or not.

Offline Baseball is Life

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #390: July 06, 2012, 10:56:34 PM »
No one ever guaranteed you that Stras would pitch all season (in fact, they said he wouldn't), or that we'd make the playoffs.

We're 16 games over. I'm trusting the guys that got us there.



Sanity.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #391: July 06, 2012, 11:18:20 PM »
Uh ... Davey kind of guaranteed the playoffs. He said if they don't make it, he'd quit

Offline sportsfan882

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #392: July 06, 2012, 11:32:02 PM »
Did Stras/Davey blame the heat for his start tonight?

Offline Mathguy

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #393: July 07, 2012, 05:08:54 AM »
Agree - the team will do well even without Strasburg

I agree with what Boswell said in his column today.  Shut him down - playoffs or not.


Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #394: July 07, 2012, 07:10:38 AM »
Did Stras/Davey blame the heat for his start tonight?


Nope, just the opposite, he said that he was better prepared for the heat, which is kind of funny since last we heard he had done everything he could have to have prepared for the start in Atlanta.


Offline tomterp

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #395: July 07, 2012, 09:17:43 AM »
Did Stras/Davey blame the heat for his start tonight?

Another quality start from the staff.

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #396: July 07, 2012, 09:38:45 AM »
Strasburg seems to be sucking a lot lately, so this whole thread could be moot.  :mg:

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #397: July 07, 2012, 09:40:23 AM »
He got an IV before this start - if medical intervention doesn't prepare him enough, nothing will. :)

I just think he happened upon a crazy-hot hitter and left him a couple he could pounce on. In the long run, struggling a little will be good for Strasburg.

Nope, just the opposite, he said that he was better prepared for the heat, which is kind of funny since last we heard he had done everything he could have to have prepared for the start in Atlanta.

(Image removed from quote.)



Offline Terpfan76

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #398: July 07, 2012, 11:21:21 AM »
There's normal risk from just playing, then there's the additional layer of risk of injury to a pitcher recovering from TJ or other serious medical procedures that result from a lack of overall conditioning.  I don't mean conditioning of the body in terms of cardio/strength, but in terms of toughening up all the mechanical shoulder and elbow joint components.  THere is widespread consensus that medically there should not be too sudden an increase in usage of the joints so as to give those components opportunity to toughen up.

Those insisting he should blow past the generally accepted guideline are disregarding this consensus or at least rationalizing their discounting of it in order to feed the beast now.

I expect that the arguments to extend Stras into the post season will be disregarded by Rizzo, I hope that he protects the Stras asset for the long haul, and I hope he plugs the hole in the rotation adequately for the postseason.

Sanity

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #399: July 07, 2012, 11:49:07 AM »
Sane Freaking Boost!