Author Topic: Strasburg in October..  (Read 14779 times)

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Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #300: July 06, 2012, 10:05:12 AM »
Really?

Yeah, pretty sure inning 220 would be significantly more risky than inning 120.

Come on this is ridiculous. We're talking about one of the best young pitchers in baseball coming off of Tommy John Surgery. They are going to limit his innings this year because it's the responsible thing to do.


and 120 is infinitely more risky than 0. we're also talking about a team that has never been to the playoffs before having a good shot this year Everyone seems perfectly fine with Zimmerman taking the needle to compete even if it risks his future, but god forbid the golden boy do what he's paid to

Offline GburgNatsFan

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #301: July 06, 2012, 10:05:30 AM »
The point he was making was you didn't say "health".
Of course I said career. Pitching Strasburg all the way through October (or whenever) could severely jeopardize his long term career as a major league baseball player.


Offline wpa2629

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #302: July 06, 2012, 10:06:37 AM »
Where are you getting 220 innings from?

You could easily get him through the playoffs under 200 if you start to manage his starts to about 4 innings for the next couple of weeks.

200 ? But wait what about October?!

And inning 200 is still way more risky than inning 100.

There's no chance they're going to do that.  200 innings coming off of Tommy John Surgery for a young pitcher who's never even pitched 150 innings in his entire career is just not going to happen.

Online Terpfan76

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #303: July 06, 2012, 10:06:58 AM »
Letting a pitcher take the mound, period, is putting him at physical risk.

Come on man, you're better than that. We all know players can get hurt at any time in any number of ways. There's a huge difference though when you're talking about a guy who's still on the come back from TJ surgery. The plan they used with JZ worked pretty well and I just don't think it's smart to risk a kids career and the teams over all future just to try and make a run now. We are a pretty young team with a pretty damn good rotation. Worst case scenerio of Gio, Zimnn, Ejax, Det and Lannan isn't all that bad really. That would still be our best rotation ever sans Strasburg as the #1.

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #304: July 06, 2012, 10:07:28 AM »
The point he was making was you didn't say "health".


Really?

This entire discussion/debate is about Strasburg's "health"

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #305: July 06, 2012, 10:08:45 AM »
and 120 is infinitely more risky than 0. we're also talking about a team that has never been to the playoffs before having a good shot this year Everyone seems perfectly fine with Zimmerman taking the needle to compete even if it risks his future, but god forbid the golden boy do what he's paid to

Wow

really just wow

LOL


Online Terpfan76

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #306: July 06, 2012, 10:08:53 AM »
and 120 is infinitely more risky than 0. we're also talking about a team that has never been to the playoffs before having a good shot this year Everyone seems perfectly fine with Zimmerman taking the needle to compete even if it risks his future, but god forbid the golden boy do what he's paid to

According to the Drs however, the risk of long term injury from taking the shot as needed for the rest of this season is minimal. If I'm not mistaken, he'll probably need off season surgery to clean crap up anyways regardless of the shot. Big difference man. You're grasping.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #307: July 06, 2012, 10:09:23 AM »
200 ? But wait what about October?!

And inning 200 is stay way more risky than inning 100.

There's no chance they're going to do that.  200 innings coming off of Tommy John Surgery for a young pitcher who's never even pitched 150 innings in his entire career is just not going to happen.

I'm not advocating for a reduction to keep it under 220... just the fact that they could massage the situation to get it that way.

Whatever they do, they'll do because they think it's the best... the Monday morning quarterbacks on both sides of the coin will be waiting to pat theirselves on the back one way or another.

I just hope the gamble works out.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #308: July 06, 2012, 10:11:14 AM »
Wow

really just wow

LOL




Cortisone is actually very risky.

First side effect listed.

"It breaks down things in our body that contain collagen, which include: muscles, bones, ligaments, and the skin.  This can lead to myopathies, which cause muscle wasting and weakness. Also, increased risk of osteoporosis"

So, with every shot he takes, he damages his body further.

Quote
...The review examined the results of nearly four dozen randomized trials, which enrolled thousands of people with tendon injuries, particularly tennis elbow, but also shoulder and Achilles-tendon pain. The reviewers determined that, for most of those who suffered from tennis elbow, cortisone injections did, as promised, bring fast and significant pain relief, compared with doing nothing or following a regimen of physical therapy. The pain relief could last for weeks.

But when the patients were re-examined at 6 and 12 months, the results were substantially different. Over all, people who received cortisone shots had a much lower rate of full recovery than those who did nothing or who underwent physical therapy. They also had a 63 percent higher risk of relapse than people who adopted the time-honored wait-and-see approach. The evidence for cortisone as a treatment for other aching tendons, like sore shoulders and Achilles-tendon pain, was slight and conflicting, the review found. But in terms of tennis elbow, the shots seemed to actually be counterproductive.


http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/27/do-cortisone-shots-actually-make-things-worse/

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #309: July 06, 2012, 10:11:51 AM »
I'm not advocating for a reduction to keep it under 220... just the fact that they could massage the situation to get it that way.

Whatever they do, they'll do because they think it's the best... the Monday morning quarterbacks on both sides of the coin will be waiting to pat theirselves on the back one way or another.

I just hope the gamble works out.

Yep

Me too.

Another thing to think about, Stras may start to really run out of gas here down the stretch, he could simply not be as effective as the innings and pitches start to mount. We saw this with Zim2 - he was really up and down in his last few starts last year.

Sigh ... it's a great problem to have I suppose. Oh no, what if our Ace is not available for the World Series!?

What if indeed ...

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #310: July 06, 2012, 10:13:27 AM »
Where are you getting 220 innings from?

You could easily get him through the playoffs under 200 if you start to manage his starts to about 4 innings for the next couple of weeks.

First of all, you could barely hold him under 200 by limiting him to 4 innings the REST of the regular season if you let him go 4 full starts in the playoffs. Also, they'd never hold him to 4 innings, which would strain the bullpen 18-19 times in the middle of the DC summer, as well as never make him eligible for a win, which doesn't mean much objectively but certainly still means something to major league pitchers.

If you pulled him after 5 innings for the rest of the season, he'd be at 190 or so by the playoffs, then if we made a World Series run would have to throw about 25-30 innings of the highest pressure innings he's ever thrown.

Given his heat aversion, I wonder if the best thing wouldn't be to shut him down now and stretch him out again in September. But they'll never do that for various reasons, not the least of which is that if they left innings for Strasburg in the playoffs and didn't actually make the playoffs, they'd be crucified.

Online Terpfan76

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #311: July 06, 2012, 10:13:34 AM »
Quote
"The doctor was here today, and we just decided that was going to be the best chance to continue to play and not have to miss any time," Zimmerman said. "It's not going to do anything to further injure my shoulder or anything like that, so there's no risk."

"Hopefully, we won't have to do it again, but if we do, it was kind of a test trial and it worked out OK," Zimmerman said. "It's not something you want to get into a habit of doing, I guess you could say, but it's better than missing time."
 

When asked if offseason surgery could be an option, Zimmerman acknowledged the possibility but said he had no idea if that would be necessary.
 
"If it continues to do this every few weeks, at the end of the year they can go in and take the little [bone] chips out. That's about as minor of a surgery as you can have, four to six weeks or something like that. So it wouldn't be a huge deal. But again, we obviously don't want to do that."


http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120624&content_id=33845636&notebook_id=33870508&vkey=notebook_was&c_id=was

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #312: July 06, 2012, 10:13:53 AM »
Cortisone is actually very risky.

First side effect listed.

"It breaks down things in our body that contain collagen, which include: muscles, bones, ligaments, and the skin.  This can lead to myopathies, which cause muscle wasting and weakness. Also, increased risk of osteoporosis"

So, with every shot he takes, he damages his body further.

I know the cortisone risks, I was talking about his "golden boy" comment. The vitriol towards this situation to me is just comical.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #313: July 06, 2012, 10:15:50 AM »
I've had numerous cortisone shots over the past 10 years and they are not something you should be doing multiple times if you care about your body and muscles. 

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #314: July 06, 2012, 10:16:22 AM »
According to the Drs however, the risk of long term injury from taking the shot as needed for the rest of this season is minimal. If I'm not mistaken, he'll probably need off season surgery to clean crap up anyways regardless of the shot. Big difference man. You're grasping.


yep no risk

Quote
The merits of cortisone as a means of treatment, though, are debated in the medical community. While many praise it for its immediate ability to relieve pain and inflammation, it doesn’t have healing qualities and most doctors caution against overuse. While using it to relieve pain in a joint carries far less peril than administering it repeatedly to a ligament or tendon (where it would only serve to mask pain and the absence of that pain could lead to further injury) there are risks.

According to Mayo Clinic physicians, where the danger zone lies varies based on joint and the reason for the treatment. But most physicians will put a limit on the number one person can receive before possible cartilage deterioration in the joint exists.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jun/27/zimmerman-gives-nationals-offense-shot-of-power-af/

Offline sportsfan882

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #315: July 06, 2012, 10:16:24 AM »
This is certainly a risk

Ask Dan Marino if he thought more Super Bowls were a foregone conclusion.

Yup. This may be our best chance. The division is on a downturn but that could quickly change. The other teams could be juggernauts again, at any time and would make our fight much harder.

Offline wpa2629

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #316: July 06, 2012, 10:18:44 AM »
Right, I've had surgery in both elbows and my hips, I got 3 cortisone shots to each area in 12 months before the doctor said - nope that's it no more cortisone for you.

Offline Slateman

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #317: July 06, 2012, 10:19:13 AM »
Shut him down. Call up Lannan.

You don't risk Strasburg for a chance to win now. If that's really how you feel, we may as well trade him after the season. His Inverted W is a ticking time bomb anyway

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #318: July 06, 2012, 10:20:49 AM »
Shut him down. Call up Lannan.

You don't risk Strasburg for a chance to win now. If that's really how you feel, we may as well trade him after the season. His Inverted W is a ticking time bomb anyway

INSANNNNNEEEBOOOOOOSSSSSTTTTTT!

:lol:

Online Terpfan76

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #319: July 06, 2012, 10:21:06 AM »

Offline NJ Ave

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #320: July 06, 2012, 10:23:37 AM »
Also, as much as stupid talking heads like Harold Reynolds claim that he'll "kill them" if they yank him after 165 innings or whatever, that seems like plain baloney to me. Major league players have to be generally smart enough to understand their own value, and even if they're not, their agents are smart enough to explain it to them.

I'm sure Boras has explained the difference between Mark Prior's long-term financial health ($13 million in career salaries) and Matt Cain's ($150 million plus).

They make too much money, for themselves and for the franchise, for a single World Series to be the determining factor when he probably changes our chances of winning from like 15% to 20%.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #321: July 06, 2012, 10:26:24 AM »
Win or GTFO.

Offline Baseball is Life

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #322: July 06, 2012, 10:28:08 AM »
I know the cortisone risks, I was talking about his "golden boy" comment. The vitriol towards this situation to me is just comical.

The vitriol towards Stras himself is comical to me....calling him every kind of name synonymous with wussy.

People who does this are not real Nats fans. They will be watched very closely by the Nats Fan Police. :mg:

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #323: July 06, 2012, 10:28:21 AM »
Also, as much as stupid talking heads like Harold Reynolds claim that he'll "kill them" if they yank him after 165 innings or whatever, that seems like plain baloney to me. Major league players have to be generally smart enough to understand their own value, and even if they're not, their agents are smart enough to explain it to them.

I'm sure Boras has explained the difference between Mark Prior's long-term financial health ($13 million in career salaries) and Matt Cain's ($150 million plus).

They make too much money, for themselves and for the franchise, for a single World Series to be the determining factor when he probably changes our chances of winning from like 15% to 20%.

Mark Prior was ruined by freak injuries... not by pitching a large amount of innings, by the way.

Just saying...

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Strasburg in October..
« Reply #324: July 06, 2012, 10:29:51 AM »
The vitriol towards Stras himself is comical to me....calling him every kind of name synonymous with wussy.

People who does this are not real Nats fans. They will be watched very closely by the Nats Fan Police. :mg:

who called him anything? people are mad at management for babying him, but who has attacked stras?