Author Topic: Washington Redskins Thread (2012)  (Read 31699 times)

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Offline spidernat

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Re: Washington Redskins Thread (2012)
« Reply #150: March 15, 2012, 11:36:55 AM »
No it does not change the fact that he had 5 drops last season. My intent was not to rip you. It was more a shot at the people that run that site. However, I didn't drop any mindfacts in my post. I only pointed out how stupid it is to rely on crap like that. I think I saw a different site that had a different number of drops listed for the same season as the one you posted so, in a sense, the definitions for dropped passes are sort of mindfacts. Just the other day someone posted something about Chester that was total bullcrap that was picked up from an article (maybe even from the same place you posted). I'm sure those are helpful when you're putting together you FANTASY draft strategy though.   

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Washington Redskins Thread (2012)
« Reply #151: March 15, 2012, 01:08:29 PM »
Not that it means anything... but for those of you interested in using RGIII in Madden '13...

This is from Donny Moore, the guy that does the player ratings for Madden

Quote
2) Washington Redskins - Robert Griffin III, QB, Baylor

RG3 might one-up Andrew Luck in at least one sense this year: He will make the Washington Redskins the most popular team to play with in Madden 13.  With 90+ Speed, 90+ Throw Power, and solid accuracies across the board (especially Deep Accuracy) Griffin III will be one of the most anticipated rookies to enter the league since Michael Vick.  Big question left for me is how high does RG3 go in terms of SPD and THP:  Can he eclipse Mike Vick’s 94 SPD and 97 THP?  Stay tuned…


http://www.ea.com/madden-nfl/blog/official-rating-czar-mock-draft-version-1

Offline Slateman

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Re: Washington Redskins Thread (2012)
« Reply #152: March 15, 2012, 04:33:14 PM »
Brandon Meriweather? For realz?

And we signed Chris Horton back

EDIT - I got banned for a week from ES. I'm so proud of myself.

Offline Terpfan76

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Re: Washington Redskins Thread (2012)
« Reply #153: March 16, 2012, 12:20:01 AM »
No it does not change the fact that he had 5 drops last season. My intent was not to rip you. It was more a shot at the people that run that site. However, I didn't drop any mindfacts in my post. I only pointed out how stupid it is to rely on crap like that. I think I saw a different site that had a different number of drops listed for the same season as the one you posted so, in a sense, the definitions for dropped passes are sort of mindfacts. Just the other day someone posted something about Chester that was total bullcrap that was picked up from an article (maybe even from the same place you posted). I'm sure those are helpful when you're putting together you FANTASY draft strategy though.   

OK, I can understand that. I was just wondering what numbers you saw and/or if there's a reliable source for that kind of info. It's all good fwiw, I think we overpaid for him, but I think he'll still be a nice piece in the offense.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Re: Washington Redskins Thread (2012)
« Reply #154: March 17, 2012, 12:02:44 PM »
serious question for you - do you think the Redskins are going to work with RGIII (or Luck) or try to force a square peg into a round hole?

Offline spidernat

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Re: Re: Re: Washington Redskins Thread (2012)
« Reply #155: March 17, 2012, 02:26:09 PM »
I think they will try to run their system. However, I don't think Griffin is Vince Young or Michael Vick so he's not as much of a "square peg into a round hole" as some people are making it seem. Luck is even more of a perfect fit for their system.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Re: Re: Washington Redskins Thread (2012)
« Reply #156: March 17, 2012, 04:03:57 PM »
What is it, exactly, that constitutes their "system"?  I think HalfSmoke explained it before but you do a really good job of educating people on football.  No snark, I'm being sincere here.

Offline nats2playoffs

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Re: Re: Re: Washington Redskins Thread (2012)
« Reply #157: March 17, 2012, 04:35:05 PM »
What is it, exactly, that constitutes their "system"?  I think HalfSmoke explained it before but you do a really good job of educating people on football.  No snark, I'm being sincere here.

Kyle Shanahan making idiotic play calls, so he can distinguish himself from any offensive coordinator with an ounce of common sense.

Offline spidernat

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Re: Re: Re: Washington Redskins Thread (2012)
« Reply #158: March 17, 2012, 04:48:55 PM »
What is it, exactly, that constitutes their "system"?  I think HalfSmoke explained it before but you do a really good job of educating people on football.  No snark, I'm being sincere here.

Several things. A strong zone running attack that thins out the defense at the point of attack in order to take advantage of the stretch play or a defense's over aggressiveness with cut backs. That's why Shanahan's system prefers offensive linemen to be extremely smart. They have to be able to read defenses, especially the interior linemen, in order to read on the run and get to the second level of the defense (Chris Chester was pretty good at that this past season). They prefer linemen that are athletic and not necessarily as big at the guard and center positions. The system is built to avoid negative plays so that even steady 2 or 3 yard gains will put the offense in favorable 3rd down positions. It's imperative that they avoid negative plays in order to have manageable distances on 3rd down. If you convert 3rd downs consistently in this offense it's almost inevitable that you will eventually gash the defense for longer chucks (maybe even a long TD) on the ground. At the same time, hesitation from defenses should leave them vulnerable to play action passes. Bootlegs are a staple of this system and can lead to huge plays when run correctly. That's why an athletic QB is preferred for this system. Luck could be really good at this but Griffin's athleticism could potentially cause nightmares for defenses. The intermediate passing game in this offense can be deadly if you have the right QB. As in every other offense the QB has to be a good decision maker (which is why I'm at a loss to explain how you were able to hang around for two seasons other than the fact that Jr loves to see you naked in the showers) and one who can push the pace. That's why Griffin seems almost ideal for this offense.

Offline spidernat

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Re: Re: Re: Washington Redskins Thread (2012)
« Reply #159: March 17, 2012, 04:51:13 PM »
Kyle Shanahan making idiotic play calls, so he can distinguish himself from any offensive coordinator with an ounce of common sense.
(Image removed from quote.)


I believe this has been a problem. That the system works has been proven. That cannot be gainsaid. But Jr has made some serious gaffes at key times. He may actually be looking to prove himself in order to secure himself a head coaching job.

Offline Nathan

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Re: Re: Re: Washington Redskins Thread (2012)
« Reply #160: March 17, 2012, 04:53:01 PM »
So, would you take RGIII over Luck if both were available?

Offline spidernat

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Re: Re: Re: Washington Redskins Thread (2012)
« Reply #161: March 17, 2012, 05:21:32 PM »
Personally I would take Luck at this time. But only because Luck seems more polished and poised to be good at the next level. Luck seems the better bet on deciding whether he will make it or bust. Also, Luck was pretty steady for the past two seasons in a more conventional style system with very little talent at the receiver position. Griffin's late rise reminds me too much of Carson Palmer, Jamarcus Russell and Blaine Gabbert. That's a little scary. Griffin has huge upside but so did Ryan Leaf, Ty Detmer, Alex Smith and Akili Smith.     Griffin's yards per attempt was really good this season but was less than desired in every other season before this one. His completion percentage was better than solid but so was Graham Harrell's, Chase Daniel's and Colt McCoy's for that matter in very similar systems. In that system you throw a ton of short passes or bubble screens and quite often receivers downfield are open in a way they don't get open at the NFL level. Having said that, Griffin seems different than all of these and I'm sick of rolling the dice on crap like John Beck, Mark Brunnell, Brad Johnson or MDS. Hopefully Shanahan can work some magic and Griffin turns into the best freaking QB EVER!

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Re: Re: Washington Redskins Thread (2012)
« Reply #162: March 17, 2012, 05:29:43 PM »
Thanks Spider, that was really helpful.  No doubt RGIII was something to behold this past season in college, but do you think that's going to translate to the field as quickly as a lot of fan hope? 

Fortunately I no longer have to drive, so I miss all of the Fans speculation and delusional callers, but do you think this is going to be a solid rebuilding and learning year or does LDS and the hype machine make this a Super Bowl do-or-die push?

Offline spidernat

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Re: Re: Re: Washington Redskins Thread (2012)
« Reply #163: March 17, 2012, 05:59:37 PM »
I don't give a crap about all the delusional fans. I try my best to avoid talking to them and I certainly can't stomach listening to them on radio shows. I had to end a conversation with one not too long ago at a restaurant when he said Joe Theismann was HOF worthy. I also ran into this dude once who wanted to argue that Joe Namath was the greatest QB in NFL history.  :lmao:

As for Griffin, if he translates to the NFL as quickly as fans hope/want (for some reason fans never learn when it comes to expectations on rookie QB's) I will be shocked. But I will be happy.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Re: Re: Washington Redskins Thread (2012)
« Reply #164: March 17, 2012, 06:17:46 PM »
I can turn down the hate on the hype machine if RGIII is even half of what he was in college.  When it was the Rax Glassjaw and John "Checkdown" Beck no way.

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Re: Re: Washington Redskins Thread (2012)
« Reply #165: March 17, 2012, 06:28:41 PM »
I don't give a crap about all the delusional fans. I try my best to avoid talking to them and I certainly can't stomach listening to them on radio shows. I had to end a conversation with one not too long ago at a restaurant when he said Joe Theismann was HOF worthy. I also ran into this dude once who wanted to argue that Joe Namath was the greatest QB in NFL history.  :lmao:

I think I know that guy.

Offline Terpfan76

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Re: Re: Re: Washington Redskins Thread (2012)
« Reply #166: March 17, 2012, 06:57:38 PM »
Several things. A strong zone running attack that thins out the defense at the point of attack in order to take advantage of the stretch play or a defense's over aggressiveness with cut backs. That's why Shanahan's system prefers offensive linemen to be extremely smart. They have to be able to read defenses, especially the interior linemen, in order to read on the run and get to the second level of the defense (Chris Chester was pretty good at that this past season). They prefer linemen that are athletic and not necessarily as big at the guard and center positions. The system is built to avoid negative plays so that even steady 2 or 3 yard gains will put the offense in favorable 3rd down positions. It's imperative that they avoid negative plays in order to have manageable distances on 3rd down. If you convert 3rd downs consistently in this offense it's almost inevitable that you will eventually gash the defense for longer chucks (maybe even a long TD) on the ground. At the same time, hesitation from defenses should leave them vulnerable to play action passes. Bootlegs are a staple of this system and can lead to huge plays when run correctly. That's why an athletic QB is preferred for this system. Luck could be really good at this but Griffin's athleticism could potentially cause nightmares for defenses. The intermediate passing game in this offense can be deadly if you have the right QB. As in every other offense the QB has to be a good decision maker (which is why I'm at a loss to explain how you were able to hang around for two seasons other than the fact that Jr loves to see you naked in the showers) and one who can push the pace. That's why Griffin seems almost ideal for this offense.


Very nicely explained Spidey! Pretty much every post after that is spot on as to my opinion as well. While we disagree on some things, I think for the most part, we look at things in an objective manner that a lot of others don't. I'm by no means calling out any posters on this site mind you, just a generalization from my personal experience.

I think RGIII has the talent, desire, intelligence and discipline to be a great NFL qb but by no means does that even remotely guarantee success. The fan base as well as the team itself must be patient as far as his progress goes. If you're looking for instant gratification, there's about a 99.9% chance that you'll be disappointed. Personally, I wouldn't be at all upset if they take the approach Bill Walsh took with Joe Montana: Put him in the game when he has the best chance at being successful without having a ton of pressure on him. Situations where we might have a big lead or be way behind where he can just go out and play but not have the outcome of the game resting square on his shoulders. Let Rexy or someone carry that burden. If however, he shows a much better grasp of the offense and is clearly the guy that gives the team the best chance to win, play him, just don't expect a second coming of Cam Newton.

I think Luck is clearly the better option, but Griffin is hardly chopped liver. Griffin, in my opinion, has much higher upside due to his athletic gifts, but his floor is a good deal lower. Like Spidey said, Luck is probably the most polished qb to enter the league since Peyton Manning. Luck should be able to start day 1 and is much more athletic than many thought he'd be.

Regardless if we have RGIII or by some strange happening end up with Luck, we'll need to get more depth on the oline. We need to keep our qb upright to have any chance of success. That and make sure that Helu and Royster are in the best shape of their lives. A great running game will take a world of pressure off of any qb.

Really good posts on this subject today for you Spidey.

Offline spidernat

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Re: Re: Re: Washington Redskins Thread (2012)
« Reply #167: March 17, 2012, 07:11:05 PM »
I think I know that guy.

Which one the Theismann lover or the Namath guy?

While we disagree on some things,
 

This thread wouldn't be the same without me calling you and Slateman out on your GM skills.  :lol:  But I disagree with you on babying Griffin. I think he should be thrown to the wolves and learn under fire. It's the sink or swim approach in my opinion unless he shows a complete inability to adjust immediately and seems lost in preseason.


Offline Terpfan76

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Re: Re: Re: Washington Redskins Thread (2012)
« Reply #168: March 17, 2012, 07:16:31 PM »
Which one the Theismann lover or the Namath guy?

This thread wouldn't be the same without me calling you and Slateman out on your GM skills.  :lol:  But I disagree with you on babying Griffin. I think he should be thrown to the wolves and learn under fire. It's the sink or swim approach in my opinion unless he shows a complete inability to adjust immediately and seems lost in preseason.



I wouldn't be entirely upset about that approach. I just don't think that there's a cookie cutter answer for how to best develop a qb. I think we'll get a much better idea of how he's progressing after workouts/preseason ends. Fortunately, hold outs should be a thing of the past.

FWIW, I saw that Erin Henderson is upset with the Vikings about his contract or lack thereof, situation. Do you think he's big enough and has the talent to fit in our 3-4? Can he play inside?  He's listed at 6'3" 243lbs.


I was a Theisman fan, but was pretty young when his career ended so obviously, Namath is not someone I watched actually play in his time. I believe that Namath benefited from playing in NY and had he played anywhere else, he'd never have sniffed the HOF.

Offline spidernat

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Re: Re: Re: Washington Redskins Thread (2012)
« Reply #169: March 17, 2012, 07:26:17 PM »
I know you like him as a MD guy but I'm not a big fan of Henderson, especially if you talk about moving him to the middle. Fletcher is smaller but Fletcher is a special animal. McIntosh struggled adjusting to the middle after playing the weak side (even though he had flashes). That doesn't mean Henderson can't adjust but I think they have bigger issues to address, i.e., re-signing Fletcher! Besides, Riley looked decent once he took over from McIntosh.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Re: Re: Washington Redskins Thread (2012)
« Reply #170: March 17, 2012, 09:34:32 PM »
long good post
Nailed it - I just said today I want Luck the sure thing and not RG3 the possible mega-star.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Washington Redskins Thread (2012)
« Reply #171: March 17, 2012, 11:10:00 PM »
Nailed it - I just said today I want Luck the sure thing and not RG3 the possible mega-star.


Unfortunately you traded all of your draft picks for the second best QB.

Offline spidernat

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Re: Washington Redskins Thread (2012)
« Reply #172: March 17, 2012, 11:58:46 PM »
Don't be completely locked in on that. Maybe Shanahan found out that Indy is all in for Griffin and that's why he pulled the trigger.   :shrug:

Offline Terpfan76

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Re: Washington Redskins Thread (2012)
« Reply #173: March 18, 2012, 12:43:00 AM »
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Don't be completely locked in on that. Maybe Shanahan found out that Indy is all in for Griffin and that's why he pulled the trigger.   :shrug:

Yeah, until the draft happens or Luck signs a contract prior to the draft, strange things can happen. Besides, from appearances, the second best qb in this draft is nothing to sneeze at.

I know I'm a Maryland fan, but I think Henderson can play. That said, I was wondering whether or not he could transition to the middle. Fletcher should have been re-signed by now. There's no excuse for this not being done unless Fletcher is asking for the Sun, Moon and stars. I'd also love to see him take a coaching job with the team when he does retire. I think he'd be a great LB coach.

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Re: Washington Redskins Thread (2012)
« Reply #174: March 18, 2012, 02:34:27 AM »
I actually don't think it's a given that the Colts take Luck.