Author Topic: Mike Cameron Retires  (Read 4235 times)

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Offline hammondsnats

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Re: Mike Cameron Retires
« Reply #75: February 20, 2012, 08:28:19 PM »
Man I didn't realize Ordonez fell off so much last year.

i was such a huge fan of his.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Mike Cameron Retires
« Reply #76: February 20, 2012, 08:29:08 PM »
I still think they will make a trade for another outfielder.

With what and for who?  There's really no one werth trading for we could land with the pieces we have left.  Rendon isn't going anywhere and everyone else werthwhile was traded in the Gio trade.

Online imref

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Re: Mike Cameron Retires
« Reply #77: February 20, 2012, 08:34:02 PM »
I'm guessing we'll see this for the first 2 months:
- Morse/Ankiel/Werth vs RHP
- Morse/Werth/DeRosa vs. LHP

Bernie would be the 5th OF.

Once Harper comes up you'll see Harper take over full time in RF, moving Werth to CF until we do something with LaRoche and Morse can move to 1B. 

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Mike Cameron Retires
« Reply #78: February 20, 2012, 08:38:22 PM »
LaRoche isn't going anywhere until late August.  Those first two months are going to be really teeth grinding with RicKKKKK AnKKKKKiel and Mark "I wish it were 2008" DeRosa platooning in CF.

Online imref

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Re: Mike Cameron Retires
« Reply #79: February 20, 2012, 08:40:52 PM »
LaRoche isn't going anywhere until late August.  Those first two months are going to be really teeth grinding with RicKKKKK AnKKKKKiel and Mark "I wish it were 2008" DeRosa platooning in CF.

DeRosa will probably play RF, with Werth shifting to CF.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Mike Cameron Retires
« Reply #80: February 20, 2012, 08:41:43 PM »
DeRosa will probably play RF, with Werth shifting to CF.

DeRosa doing anything other than a potential defensive replacement is going to be a crapshow.  That is unless someone figured out a way to go back in time.

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Mike Cameron Retires
« Reply #81: February 20, 2012, 08:42:38 PM »
LaRoche isn't going anywhere until late August.  Those first two months are going to be really teeth grinding with RicKKKKK AnKKKKKiel and Mark "I wish it were 2008" DeRosa platooning in CF.

I'm still holding out hope that Rizzo nabs a CF before the end of ST.  This is the only scenario I am comfortable with that doesn't include Harper within the first two months of the season.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Mike Cameron Retires
« Reply #82: February 20, 2012, 08:43:49 PM »
I'm still holding out hope that Rizzo nabs a CF before the end of ST.  This is the only scenario I am comfortable with that doesn't include Harper within the first two months of the season.

But again, who are they going to trade that's going to be a potential improvement over what we're going to trot out come Opening Day?

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Mike Cameron Retires
« Reply #83: February 20, 2012, 08:52:27 PM »
But again, who are they going to trade that's going to be a potential improvement over what we're going to trot out come Opening Day?

I say **** it and trade what it takes to land a REAL CF.  The O's need prospects.  Give them prospects for Jones.  Hood, Perez, Moore, and some pitching prospects.  Enough to do it I'd think.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Mike Cameron Retires
« Reply #84: February 20, 2012, 08:55:46 PM »
I say **** it and trade what it takes to land a REAL CF.  The O's need prospects.  Give them prospects for Jones.  Hood, Perez, Moore, and some pitching prospects.  Enough to do it I'd think.

As much I love Adam Jones, I don't really see him as a leadoff hitter, though I do like his bat.  Now, if they bought into moving Werthless to leadoff and bumped Desmond to eighth and put Jones in the two hole, I'd be down with that.

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Mike Cameron Retires
« Reply #85: February 20, 2012, 08:57:47 PM »
As much I love Adam Jones, I don't really see him as a leadoff hitter, though I do like his bat.  Now, if they bought into moving Werthless to leadoff and bumped Desmond to eighth and put Jones in the two hole, I'd be down with that.

Hope and pray that Lombo tears up ST and Desmond rides the bus in AAA.  Lombo at leadoff, Jones at #2, Werth lower down in the lineup.

Online imref

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Re: Mike Cameron Retires
« Reply #86: February 20, 2012, 09:03:32 PM »
As much I love Adam Jones, I don't really see him as a leadoff hitter, though I do like his bat.  Now, if they bought into moving Werthless to leadoff and bumped Desmond to eighth and put Jones in the two hole, I'd be down with that.

get through this year then sign Victorino or Bourn if it looks like Goodwin isn't ready to play in 2013.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Mike Cameron Retires
« Reply #87: February 20, 2012, 09:06:43 PM »
Hope and pray that Lombo tears up ST and Desmond rides the bus in AAA.  Lombo at leadoff, Jones at #2, Werth lower down in the lineup.

I'm of the mind Werthless bats leadoff or second.  Spots 3-6 need to be our power guys - Zim, Morse, LaRoche, and Espinosa.  Ideally this would be my lineup (assuming we landed Jones):

Werthless
Jones
Zim
Morse
LaRoche
Espinosa
Ramos
Pitcher
Desmond

Probably a terrible lineup based on some faulty "model", but I could see it being productive.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Mike Cameron Retires
« Reply #88: February 20, 2012, 09:07:11 PM »
get through this year then sign Victorino or Bourn if it looks like Goodwin isn't ready to play in 2013.

And what happens when they both sign extensions?

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: Mike Cameron Retires
« Reply #89: February 20, 2012, 09:16:12 PM »
I'm of the mind Werthless bats leadoff or second.  Spots 3-6 need to be our power guys - Zim, Morse, LaRoche, and Espinosa.  Ideally this would be my lineup (assuming we landed Jones):

Werthless
Jones
Zim
Morse
LaRoche
Espinosa
Ramos
Pitcher
Desmond

Probably a terrible lineup based on some faulty "model", but I could see it being productive.

I like that line-up.

Offline Mattionals

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Re: Mike Cameron Retires
« Reply #90: February 20, 2012, 09:33:24 PM »
And what happens when they both sign extensions?

Bourn won't.  Too expensive for Atlanta who is pretty much at the top end of their budget.  Plus his speed will diminish as he ages.  I see them going for a younger guy that they can acquire through trade and if Pastornicky can lead off, then the CF can hit for power.

Can't Werth just hit 8th or something?  I don't hate him at 6th though.  Espinosa at 8th could provide good power and speed, but I'm not sure he cuts down on the K's by hitting in front of the pitcher.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Mike Cameron Retires
« Reply #91: February 20, 2012, 09:35:13 PM »
I suppose we'll just have to wait and see.  Of course, Bourn could end up signing with the Cubs for a ridiculous amount of money like the last guy everyone wanted to sign to fill a need (i.e. Fielder).

Offline PatsNats28

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Re: Mike Cameron Retires
« Reply #92: February 20, 2012, 09:35:43 PM »
I'm of the mind Werthless bats leadoff or second.  Spots 3-6 need to be our power guys - Zim, Morse, LaRoche, and Espinosa.  Ideally this would be my lineup (assuming we landed Jones):

Werthless
Jones
Zim
Morse
LaRoche
Espinosa
Ramos
Pitcher
Desmond

Probably a terrible lineup based on some faulty "model", but I could see it being productive.

I'd argue that Werth is as much of a power guy as LaRoche. Werth's career HR rate is 3.9 versus LaRoche's 4.1.

I checked it with a model out of curiosity... for Werth and Zimmerman, I used an average of last year and their career averages, for LaRoche I used 2010, for a pitcher I used .140/.200 for OBP/SLG, and for everyone else, I used their 2011 numbers. The best lineup, yielding an average of 4.646 runs a game (as opposed to the average 4.589), is the following:

1. Jayson Werth
2. Ryan Zimmerman
3. Danny Espinosa
4. Michael Morse
5. Wilson Ramos
6. Adam Jones
7. Adam LaRoche
8. Pitcher
9. Ian Desmond

Not far off from your own projections. I think it puts Jones lower than you do because of his low OBP. I was surprised at Ramos at #5, but he did hit better than Jones last year. Only significant difference is Espinosa at #3.

The difference between the average lineup and the optimal lineup (per the model) is 0.057 runs per game, or 9.234 runs over a 162 game season, or 0.9234 wins. Basically, the best lineup versus the average lineup is an extra win over the course of a season.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Mike Cameron Retires
« Reply #93: February 20, 2012, 09:39:02 PM »
Which just proves my point.  Who knows, maybe one of these guys spends some time with Barry Bonds and learns how to spot a pitch better.  Maybe the strikeout brigade makes a comeback and causes me to self-immolate after Werthless goes 0-4 with a reverse Golden Sombrero (four caught lookings). 

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: Mike Cameron Retires
« Reply #94: February 20, 2012, 09:58:08 PM »
I say **** it and trade what it takes to land a REAL CF.  The O's need prospects.  Give them prospects for Jones.  Hood, Perez, Moore, and some pitching prospects.  Enough to do it I'd think.

Lannan plus a couple of prospects like the guys you mentioned would probably do it.  Some of those guys are in our 'top ten' according to the media so they have some cachet.  Hood probably doesn't have a future with the team with Harper and Werth on the team for the next few years.

Lannan for Marlon Byrd probably works.  Gerardo Parra or one of the Pirates CF types would work if it's Lannan plus a prospect like Hood.  The A's have a ton of outfielders.  Lannan or Gorzelanny for Seth Smith might make sense.

It doesn't have to be a center fielder but the Nats do need another outfielder who can both hit and field.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: Mike Cameron Retires
« Reply #95: February 20, 2012, 09:58:42 PM »
get through this year then sign Victorino or Bourn if it looks like Goodwin isn't ready to play in 2013.

BJ Upton definitely isn't signing an extension with the Rays.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Mike Cameron Retires
« Reply #96: February 21, 2012, 07:44:50 AM »
As much I love Adam Jones, I don't really see him as a leadoff hitter, though I do like his bat.  Now, if they bought into moving Werthless to leadoff and bumped Desmond to eighth and put Jones in the two hole, I'd be down with that.



No trades with the O's - nothing to make them better. Only get Jones if they will take Matt Stairs and Bernadina and Xavier Paul.

Offline CatsEye

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Re: Mike Cameron Retires
« Reply #97: February 21, 2012, 12:39:03 PM »
And I say again: this team needs some hitting outfielders.
               So say we all............ :cheers:


Offline CatsEye

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Re: Mike Cameron Retires
« Reply #98: February 21, 2012, 12:45:10 PM »
I think he either re-injured his hamstring or it didn't completely heal.
          And that information would come from? Or are we being facitious (spelling?)...... :shrug: