Author Topic: WP: Nats MASN deal renegotations will have a huge impact  (Read 100958 times)

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Offline PowerBoater69

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Did the Nats get “fair market value” with interest?  Did anyone leak the details?  Right now it sounds like the answer to both questions is no.

Leaks? Everything is filed in court, no redactions. The original MASN contract, the MLB ruling, and everything that Angelos can get his hands on to file as evidence. Of course there is always some speculation, but there is much more known than unknown about the case. As far as it not changing for six years, that is pretty much the case, once a year a panel or a judge issues a ruling that both sides disagree with, leading to appeals.

Offline PowerBoater69

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in fact, the MASN deal was probably a net positive.  Since 2012, they've taken a hit.

This is probably correct, the Lerners got the team for $450 million and it has tripled in value. If the broadcast rights had been included in the original value it's questionable whether those would have increased in value at the same rate.

Offline PowerBoater69

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MASN is now referring to the Nats/Os series as the MASN Cup. Probably they'll copyright the term and freeze me out.


Offline MarquisDeSade

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Leaks? Everything is filed in court, no redactions. The original MASN contract, the MLB ruling, and everything that Angelos can get his hands on to file as evidence. Of course there is always some speculation, but there is much more known than unknown about the case. As far as it not changing for six years, that is pretty much the case, once a year a panel or a judge issues a ruling that both sides disagree with, leading to appeals.

So I was right six years ago like I’m right today.

Online tomterp

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MASN is now referring to the Nats/Os series as the MASN Cup. Probably they'll copyright the term and freeze me out.

(Image removed from quote.)

Had you licensed the use of "MASN"?      :whistle:

Online welch

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A view from a Baltimore Sun writer printed in the Miami Herald: if MASN contract splits 50/50, it "would create a financial hardship for the [Baltimore] franchise".

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MASN and Orioles attorneys have contended in court documents that a negative outcome would create a financial hardship for the franchise, while the Nationals insist they already are being severely disadvantaged by the deal they agreed to in 2005 that gave the Orioles a much larger piece of the MASN pie.

That debate has simmered for years as the teams raised concerns about their economic sustainability. But as a new MLB panel prepares to rehear the case, there have been whispers around town about the possibility of the Orioles leaving Baltimore one day.

Article tosses unconvincing arguments with some "woe and gloom" rhetoric, plus a pat on Baltimore's head:

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The Orioles have fought stubbornly to maintain the original MASN agreement, which was publicly lauded by MLB and Nationals officials as a good deal for both teams after it was signed 13 years ago.

And an equivocal conclusion:
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If it is overturned by the new MLB arbitration panel, all bets are off. But even in the wake of such a negative outcome for the Orioles, they probably aren't going anywhere.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/mlb/article213751689.html

Online varoadking

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A view from a Baltimore Sun writer printed in the Miami Herald: if MASN contract splits 50/50, it "would create a financial hardship for the [Baltimore] franchise".

Article tosses unconvincing arguments with some "woe and gloom" rhetoric, plus a pat on Baltimore's head:

And an equivocal conclusion:
http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/mlb/article213751689.html

They should move to Montreal...

Offline spidernat

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A view from a Baltimore Sun writer printed in the Miami Herald: if MASN contract splits 50/50, it "would create a financial hardship for the [Baltimore] franchise".




cry me a freaking river.



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That debate has simmered for years as the teams raised concerns about their economic sustainability. But as a new MLB panel prepares to rehear the case, there have been whispers around town about the possibility of the Orioles leaving Baltimore one day.



I have no love for the birds, only contempt, but I don't want that to happen.

Online HalfSmokes

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I have no love for the birds, only contempt, but I don't want that to happen.

Absent Washington, Baltimore probably isn’t a big enough market

Online welch

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Absent Washington, Baltimore probably isn’t a big enough market

In 1954, Baltimore was an OK market. That city had some rich people, including the family that owned a brewery and bought the Browns. Washington was a city of government workers...no factory owners, no businesses of any size. The Redskins belonged to a guy who owned a laundry service, and the Nats belonged to a pitcher who had helped to found the AL.

Quoting William Yurasko on the Facebook site "Washington Baseball Yesterday and Today", "The Baltimore Orioles are a dream that deserves to die". Saint Louis needs the Browns again.

Offline spidernat

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Absent Washington, Baltimore probably isn’t a big enough market



That's probably true and especially when you take what welch said into account. The Senators leaving was before my time but it sucks to be a fan of a sport and not have a team in your city and it's probably even worse when you have a team and that team relocates. I don't wish that upon any fanbase. Of course it's much easier to latch on to a team and follow them in today's world than it was in the past but I still don't wish that for Baltimore fans (even though a lot of them were and still are douchebags to the DC fanbase since the Nationals came to town).

Online HalfSmokes

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I don’t think the problem with Baltimore is the city per se. it’s not too small, but the team is hemmed in by Philly to the north, Pittsburg to the northwest, and DC to the south. That leaves ~1/2 Maryland for a natural fanbase and Maryland isn’t very big. That’s fine for football where you only have to fill 8 home games and tv money is shared, but it’s not enough for any other sport

Offline Mathguy

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Have an owner/management invest in a good teams and they will be happy to have 81 games to fill with customers.  The present Orioles business plan is very weak.

I don’t think the problem with Baltimore is the city per se. it’s not too small, but the team is hemmed in by Philly to the north, Pittsburg to the northwest, and DC to the south. That leaves ~1/2 Maryland for a natural fanbase and Maryland isn’t very big. That’s fine for football where you only have to fill 8 home games and tv money is shared, but it’s not enough for any other sport

Online HalfSmokes

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Have an owner/management invest in a good teams and they will be happy to have 81 games to fill with customers.  The present Orioles business plan is very weak.


That’s the problem- no team can stay competive indefinitely, you need a market that can support an ok team. I’m, guessing western MD (the part that isn’t pirates fans) plus Baltimore and its suburbs, plus the eastern shore isn’t large enough to pull that off

Offline Dave301

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Get 'em outta here. Good riddance. People in the Bmore area can follow DC's team like they do the Caps and Wizards. Put a Minor League affiliate there and name them the Baltimore Crabcakes or whatever.

Online welch

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Get 'em outta here. Good riddance. People in the Bmore area can follow DC's team like they do the Caps and Wizards. Put a Minor League affiliate there and name them the Baltimore Crabcakes or whatever.

It would be a great place for the Nats' AAA team.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Virtually no chance that the Os leave Baltimore, but the MASN deal does give them good reason, if the Os leave Angelos still owns most of the TV rights for DC and Baltimore along with whatever new area they pick up. He owns the only franchise in pro sports that would retain their old market if they move, a two for none deal.

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But as a new MLB panel prepares to rehear the case...If it is overturned by the new MLB arbitration panel...

The current set of on-going appeals are over whether the new arbitration panel will be run by MLB or an independent panel. If Schmuck has info that it will be an MLB panel that would be news.

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It certainly doesn't help that the Orioles are nearing the end of their Camden Yards lease

Buried in the article about non-existent rumors of an Os move is this mention of the OPACY lease, the true reason for the Os woes. Angelos is purposefully lowering the value of the team and using Schmuck to push rumors of a move in order to negotiate better terms with the city. He'll certainly want Baltimore (a city that is falling apart) to come up with cash for ballpark improvements and he'll want to lower his rent payments. Ideally the city will call his bluff and offer nothing, but most likely he'll get everything he's asking for.

Offline nfotiu

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The Orioles have fought stubbornly to maintain the original MASN agreement, which was publicly lauded by MLB and Nationals officials as a good deal for both teams after it was signed 13 years ago.


If it is overturned by the new MLB arbitration panel, all bets are off. But even in the wake of such a negative outcome for the Orioles, they probably aren't going anywhere.

These quotes are completely off-base, aren't they?   I thought the Nationals are wanting to maintain the current deal (which includes a reset in fees to market value), and it is the Orioles trying to overturn the original MLB panel's decision.

Online HalfSmokes

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Virtually no chance that the Os leave Baltimore, but the MASN deal does give them good reason, if the Os leave Angelos still owns most of the TV rights for DC and Baltimore along with whatever new area they pick up. He owns the only franchise in pro sports that would retain their old market if they move, a two for none deal.

The current set of on-going appeals are over whether the new arbitration panel will be run by MLB or an independent panel. If Schmuck has info that it will be an MLB panel that would be news.

Buried in the article about non-existent rumors of an Os move is this mention of the OPACY lease, the true reason for the Os woes. Angelos is purposefully lowering the value of the team and using Schmuck to push rumors of a move in order to negotiate better terms with the city. He'll certainly want Baltimore (a city that is falling apart) to come up with cash for ballpark improvements and he'll want to lower his rent payments. Ideally the city will call his bluff and offer nothing, but most likely he'll get everything he's asking for.


Owning the nats rights does crap for him if he has to pay the nats fair market value or something approaching it (ie in the neighborhood of what the first panel came down with), but can’t get providers to pay masn a number that comes close to covering the other RSN deals used as comps let alone reflecting two teams. If the Os move it’s good for the nats too since they hold a stake in MASN which owns the Os rights. I’m sure the Lerners would prefer to have to Os in a market where their rights are actually worth something

Offline PowerBoater69

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These quotes are completely off-base, aren't they?   I thought the Nationals are wanting to maintain the current deal (which includes a reset in fees to market value), and it is the Orioles trying to overturn the original MLB panel's decision.

The Nats have asked the courts to either enforce the ruling of the original MLB panel or enforce the contract that mandates an internal MLB panel which would mean doing a reset with a new panel. The Os want an independent panel.

The MLB panel really didn't do the Nats many favors when they prioritized keeping MASN solvent over paying the Nats their fair market value. But for now the Lerners have apparently determined that ruling is their best option.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Owning the nats rights does crap for him if he has to pay the nats fair market value or something approaching it (ie in the neighborhood of what the first panel came down with), but can’t get providers to pay masn a number that comes close to covering the other RSN deals used as comps let alone reflecting two teams. If the Os move it’s good for the nats too since they hold a stake in MASN which owns the Os rights. I’m sure the Lerners would prefer to have to Os in a market where their rights are actually worth something

Good point that the Os moving would be good for the Nats, more area fans who would follow the Nats and the Lerners share of MASN would rise.

The question of what is fair market value and would that price bankrupt the network was a big part of the fees as determined by the original MLB panel. They awarded the Nats the highest possible fees that would allow the network to continue to remain solvent. If the Os moved, maybe the panel would be less sympathetic to their cause.

Online HalfSmokes

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Until more RSN deals get signed (I doubt teams are stupid enough at the moment to sign new deals) providing fresh comps, I’m not sure fair market let’s MASN remain solvent- they botched their deals and the climate now is terrible for RSNs

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Nobody cares and this is never getting resolved.

Online HalfSmokes

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Nobody cares and this is never getting resolved.

Who says otherwise? It’s a deal with periodic resets- by definition, it never gets resolved

Offline Smithian

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Nobody cares and this is never getting resolved.
It is Lucy and the football. It will never end. My favorite fact is we're now two years past a book being written about the dispute and it is still ongoing.