Author Topic: Define Natitude  (Read 93003 times)

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Offline wpa2629

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I'm curious, could Yokum be liable somehow if he puts forth an actual "recommendation" ?


Online PowerBoater69

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Hi, Dr. Yocum, Mike Rizzo here, remember about a couple years ago when you performed surgery on a kid named Strasburg? Well he's getting ready to get shut down right before a playoff run and we're wondering if there has been any new information gained in the past 48 months that might help us make the best decision here.

Real easy stuff there, Rizzo could have even sent an email if he wanted to avoid the interpersonal communication. How does the rest of his staff and upper management allow this to happen?

Offline Minty Fresh

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I'm curious, could Yokum be liable somehow if he puts forth an actual "recommendation" ?

I'm not a doctor but it is just a recommendation and not a mandate.

Offline wpa2629

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I'm not a doctor but it is just a recommendation and not a mandate.

ok, thanks

Offline PebbleBall

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Hi, Dr. Yocum, Mike Rizzo here, remember about a couple years ago when you performed surgery on a kid named Strasburg? Well he's getting ready to get shut down right before a playoff run and we're wondering if there has been any new information gained in the past 48 months that might help us make the best decision here.

Real easy stuff there, Rizzo could have even sent an email if he wanted to avoid the interpersonal communication. How does the rest of his staff and upper management allow this to happen?

Yeah, Yokum probably had a groundbreaking medical study buried somewhere on his desk and if only Rizzo had called to ask.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Quote
More to the point, John isn't a doctor but rather only a talkative ex-ballplayer. Strasburg's doctor is the esteemed Lewis Yocum. He prescribed the innings limit.

 http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/blog/jon-heyman/20094881/nobody-should-question-nats-gm-mike-rizzo-now-not-even-on-strasburg-shutdown

Quote
 
 Yocum further notes that it’s GM Mike Rizzo who came up with the 160 inning shutdown standard himself. That he imposed it in the case of Jordan Zimmermann, and that he’s doing the same with Strasburg without the aide of any medical directive.

 http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/09/13/strasburgs-doctor-there-are-no-studies-supporting-the-nats-decision-to-shut-him-down/

Offline Minty Fresh

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Yeah, Yokum probably had a groundbreaking medical study buried somewhere on his desk and if only Rizzo had called to ask.

If only Rizzo had asked we'd have had the template for recovery in our hands and Stras would have been properly handled; but because of that lack of a phone call the journal was instead shredded and the Nats and the medical community is poorer for it. 

DAMN YOU RIZZO!

Online PowerBoater69

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Yeah, Yokum probably had a groundbreaking medical study buried somewhere on his desk and if only Rizzo had called to ask.

No harm in asking, unless you are already entrenched in your decision and don't want to hear any information that might counter your position.

Offline DPMOmaha

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Yikes.  So, it comes across to me that he copy and pasted the Zimmermann plan?  Did Yocum consult on that one?

Offline PebbleBall

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Yikes.  So, it comes across to me that he copy and pasted the Zimmermann plan?  Did Yocum consult on that one?

Yes, he copy and pasted.  But he's never denied that. 

Quote
"It's something we've done with six or seven guys, including Jordan Zimmermann," Rizzo said, "and we think it's worked well."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/tom_verducci/09/04/stephen-strasburg-shut-down-mike-rizzo/index.html#ixzz26N1yhlCW


Offline Minty Fresh

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I'd be very interested to find out what role in all of this Scott Boras has played.  He's been mostly silent and any feedback he's given seems cryptic, at best.


Offline wpa2629

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I'd be very interested to find out what role in all of this Scott Boras has played.  He's been mostly silent and any feedback he's given seems cryptic, at best.



He just gave an interview about this. I will see if I can dig it up - edit - Found it

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/nationals-journal/post/scott-boras-on-his-nationals-influence-and-stephen-strasburgs-innings-limit/2012/08/23/39c4c3f2-ed61-11e1-9ddc-340d5efb1e9c_blog.html

Scott Boras discusses his influence with the Nationals and Stephen Strasburg’s innings limit By  Adam Kilgore 

(Carlos Osorio - AP) Scott Boras, Stephen Strasburg’s high-profile agent, refuted the notion that he has assisted Nationals General Manager Mike Rizzo’s building the Nationals or helped dictate Strasburg’s impending shutdown. Boras shared information with Rizzo and agrees with the Nationals’ decision to limit Strasburg’s innings, but he strongly insisted Rizzo made the ultimate call....

Offline hammondsnats

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pebble, that's an awesome avatar.  sharp looking logo.

Offline Slateman

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Nattitude: Our replacement players are better than your starters.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Rizzo never claimed he had a conversation after spring training with Yocum.  In fact, he has maintained the plan was set in the spring and has not varied.  nothing inconsistent with that in the smoking gun quote PB69 is running with. 

Quote
Yocum said he had not talked with Nationals General Manager Mike Rizzo since last year and had not talked with Strasburg since spring training.

Online PowerBoater69

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Rizzo never claimed he had a conversation after spring training with Yocum.  In fact, he has maintained the plan was set in the spring and has not varied.  nothing inconsistent with that in the smoking gun quote PB69 is running with. 


You are mixing up two issues:

1) That Rizzo misrepresented his consultations with Yocum. There is no quote where Rizzo provides the timing of his conversations with the doctor, but there are numerous quotes where Rizzo name drops Yocum in a manner which would lead a reasonable person to believe that Rizzo was receiving on going input from the doctor.

2) That Rizzo continually made references to following the advice of doctors when the doctor in question has confirmed that there are no medical studies backing up the GM's decision. So this was a gut call by Rizzo and no 100 page power point presentation makes this any more scientific than a shot in the dark.

This was the kind of seat of his pants, gut feeling, I know better than anyone else decision that people used to hate on Bowden about.

Offline DPMOmaha

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You are mixing up two issues:

1) That Rizzo misrepresented his consultations with Yocum. There is no quote where Rizzo provides the timing of his conversations with the doctor, but there are numerous quotes where Rizzo name drops Yocum in a manner which would lead a reasonable person to believe that Rizzo was receiving on going input from the doctor.

2) That Rizzo continually made references to following the advice of doctors when the doctor in question has confirmed that there are no medical studies backing up the GM's decision. So this was a gut call by Rizzo and no 100 page power point presentation makes this any more scientific than a shot in the dark.

This was the kind of seat of his pants, gut feeling, I know better than anyone else decision that people used to hate on Bowden about.

You've got syntax issues working against you.  Rizzo's also referred to a 50 page report documenting players with this injury and how they were handled and likewise responded during their recovery.  I don't think it's fair to call it a gut decision.  It does appear as though it would be fair to say he misrepresented how involved Dr. Y was.

Online PowerBoater69

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You've got syntax issues working against you.  Rizzo's also referred to a 50 page report documenting players with this injury and how they were handled and likewise responded during their recovery.  I don't think it's fair to call it a gut decision.  It does appear as though it would be fair to say he misrepresented how involved Dr. Y was.

50 pages, 100 pages, 69,000 pages. The point is that Rizzo touted the page count as some sort of validation that he knows more than anyone else on the subject and now the true expert has exposed Rizzo's bible to be smoke and mirrors.

Offline PebbleBall

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You are mixing up two issues:

1) That Rizzo misrepresented his consultations with Yocum. There is no quote where Rizzo provides the timing of his conversations with the doctor, but there are numerous quotes where Rizzo name drops Yocum in a manner which would lead a reasonable person to believe that Rizzo was receiving on going input from the doctor.

2) That Rizzo continually made references to following the advice of doctors when the doctor in question has confirmed that there are no medical studies backing up the GM's decision. So this was a gut call by Rizzo and no 100 page power point presentation makes this any more scientific than a shot in the dark.

This was the kind of seat of his pants, gut feeling, I know better than anyone else decision that people used to hate on Bowden about.

Right.  Personally, if I give Rizzo better treatment than Bowden it's because I use 89-win seasons as a tiebreaker.


Offline The Chief

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So... All along the doctor was Dr. Mindfact.

I laughed.

Offline Minty Fresh

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50 pages, 100 pages, 69,000 pages. The point is that Rizzo touted the page count as some sort of validation that he knows more than anyone else on the subject and now the true expert has exposed Rizzo's bible to be smoke and mirrors.

And you can spin all you want, it's still an opinion you gleaned from the facts. 

Offline DPMOmaha

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50 pages, 100 pages, 69,000 pages. The point is that Rizzo touted the page count as some sort of validation that he knows more than anyone else on the subject and now the true expert has exposed Rizzo's bible to be smoke and mirrors.

No he hasn't.  He's just called it into question.  Until we get a look at that report, which will come out someday when a disgruntled employee get fired and leaks it to deadspin or TMZ, we won't know exactly what evidence or lack there of he used.

Offline Slateman

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Nattitude: Where you people whine about everything

Offline welch

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Natitude: cheer the team to victory. Nothing wrong with cautious handling of a pitcher.

Offline Baseball is Life

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Natitude: cheer the team to victory. Nothing wrong with cautious handling of a pitcher.

If the worst thing they can say about Rizzo is that he is being overprotective of Stras, then I'm ok with that.