Author Topic: Define Natitude  (Read 76652 times)

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Offline hammondsnats

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and i got blasted on the other thread about saying what proof, what doctors have come out and said "it's a smart decision".

:lmao:

Offline LostYudite

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and i got blasted on the other thread about saying what proof, what doctors have come out and said "it's a smart decision".

:lmao:

[Apologist sheep] Dr. Jaaaaaames aaa-Andrews! [/apologist sheep] (Check my av, yo!)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/post/dr-james-andrews-backs-the-nats/2012/08/23/67569526-ed51-11e1-b09d-07d971dee30a_blog.html

Quote
“He’s such a young pitcher, such a tremendous talent, and I think prevention and being careful with these high-level pitchers is certainly admirable,” Andrews said. “So I would certainly take up for the decision. And I don’t know first-hand — there’s probably a lot of intangibles that helped them make that decision. But I don’t think you can criticize that one bit, to be honest with you.


“If you look  at the injury rates on re-dos for Tommy Johns, the highest injury rates they have is during the second year, when they’re coming back and really back up at top form and throwing and getting fatigued,” he continued. “So I think that’s a bold step, but it’s probably protective for him and for his long-term career, which is always more important than anything else, particularly in a high-level pitcher like that, and a young pitcher.”

Though I think Rizzo pretty much clearly said they talked to Yocum, so it's funny if they didn't.

Offline CapsnNats

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I'm frankly just sick and tired of hearing about it.

Offline PowerBoater69

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The Bog man is going off on Rizzo right now, Tweeting quotes of Rizzo saying that he was following the Yocum plan. So Rizz, with your team heading to the playoffs you don't pick up the phone and ask some questions? Gross negligence on our GM's part.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Quote
Rizzo did his best to explain that the decision is a medical one, not managerial.

“We’re looking at the long term health of the franchise and for Stephen Strasburg,” said Rizzo. “We’ve got a plan, we’ve got a blueprint of how to do this. This isn’t Mike Rizzo’s plan, he didn’t go to Medical school but Dr. Lew Yocum did and Dr. James Andrews did. We’re taking their recommendations and putting them into place.”

 http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/08/16/holden-danny-rizzo-says-it-was-doctors-call-to-shutdown-strasburg/

How can he lie like that and honestly think it wouldn't eventually come out that he didn't contact Yocum?

Offline PowerBoater69

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Anyone else think that Yocum has lost any future Nats business?

Offline Slateman

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Nattitude: Shut down Strasburg? We don't care. We have the Lananminal

Offline Lintyfresh85

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And now we can finally say shutting down Strasburg was a Rizzo gut decision and not one he talked over with a surgeon and leading expert.

Offline wpa2629

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For freak's sake

Offline Minty Fresh

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http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/08/16/holden-danny-rizzo-says-it-was-doctors-call-to-shutdown-strasburg/

How can he lie like that and honestly think it wouldn't eventually come out that he didn't contact Yocum?

With all of the publicity surrounding TJ surgery, you don't think Yocum has written recommendations somewhere for reference?

Offline mitlen

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Offline Lintyfresh85

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Minty. Yocum just said he didn't tell the Nats what to do. Rizzo has always said Yocum created the plan for shutting down Strasburg. Clearly he didn't.

And if the Nats claim he did... He did so without his consent or knowledge.

Offline Kevrock

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All those holier than thou posts about medical science backing up Rizzo. Apologist sheep went along with it.

Irony.

Offline Minty Fresh

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Minty. Yocum just said he didn't tell the Nats what to do. Rizzo has always said Yocum created the plan for shutting down Strasburg. Clearly he didn't.

And if the Nats claim he did... He did so without his consent or knowledge.

Perhaps not, butthat quote you offered does not say that Rizzo spoke directly to anyone just that they were following recommendations.  I'm sure Yocum and Andrews have published volumes on TJ surgery because they're apparently leaders in the field.

I'm not saying Rizzo was right or wrong; I'm only saying there are a bunch of fanbois here looking for their pound of flesh and making up excuses for their angst.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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I just find it funny Rizzo chose to lie about it. Why not tell the truth, admit it was your idea and wear it?

Why make up a fake conversation that never took place?

Offline Kevrock

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So what did Yocum give Strasburg and the Nats after the surgery. Zero guidelines? Strasburg, Boras, and Rizzo have all lied that they're listening to the doctor? Strasburg seems to think he's listening to Yocum.

Mark Zuckerman ‏@MarkZuckerman
Stephen Strasburg on Saturday: "Dr. Yocum, he resurrected my career. I gotta listen to him and I gotta trust him."

The article raises more questions than it answers.

Offline wpa2629

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I just find it funny Rizzo chose to lie about it. Why not tell the truth, admit it was your idea and wear it?

Why make up a fake conversation that never took place?

Well, Rizzo did say time and again that the decision was solely his ... :shrug:

Sigh

For freak's sake

Offline Obed_Marsh

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Offline OldChelsea

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Perhaps not, butthat quote you offered does not say that Rizzo spoke directly to anyone just that they were following recommendations.[...][emphasis added]

The quote may be controversial or possibly lacking in full veracity...but is it really a 'butthat' quote?

Offline wpa2629

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The quote may be controversial or possibly lacking in full veracity...but is it really a 'butthat' quote?

Yeah a "butthat" is serious business

Offline blue911

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I just find it funny Rizzo chose to lie about it. Why not tell the truth, admit it was your idea and wear it?

Why make up a fake conversation that never took place?

Exactly.

Yocum seems fine with the decision so it's freaking stupid of Rizzo to lie about it.

Offline comish4lif

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So... All along the doctor was Dr. Mindfact.

Or, the team's doctors.

Offline Minty Fresh

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The quote may be controversial or possibly lacking in full veracity...but is it really a 'butthat' quote?

:lmao:    :-[

I just find it funny Rizzo chose to lie about it. Why not tell the truth, admit it was your idea and wear it?

Why make up a fake conversation that never took place?

You still haven't provided the proof a "conversation" took place; so technically he didn't lie.  Same principle applies here that you hold to ASSCLOWN - provide the source.  It's certainly plausible that Yocum has published something regarding TJ recovery/rehab recommendations somewhere - that is what Doctors do.

No source = no valid opinion.

Butthat.  :P

Offline PebbleBall

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I'd like to know the context of Yocum's quote:

Quote
The doctor who performed elbow surgery on Stephen Strasburg said he did not tell the Washington Nationals to shut down their ace pitcher.

“I wasn’t asked,” Dr. Lewis Yocum told the Los Angeles Times.

Yocum said he had not talked with Nationals General Manager Mike Rizzo since last year and had not talked with Strasburg since spring training.

It's a long-term issue, so any conversation he had with Rizzo or with Strasburg in the Spring still could (and probably certainly did) address the shut down.  Strasburg said he has to trust Dr. Yocum, so the Dr. probably said something to him related to the shutdown.  Just because he says he wasn't asked (and we don't know specifically what the question he said that in reply to was) doesn't mean he doesn't think it's good for him.  At any rate, Yocum doesn't sound anti-shutdown:

Quote
Yocum said that process — and not any medical directive — essentially determined how Rizzo would proceed with Strasburg.

“It’s based on Mike’s experience,” Yocum said. “Mike is extremely confident. His track record speaks for itself. Zimmermann did extremely well.”

Yocum said the results with Zimmermann and Strasburg might well influence how other teams handle the progress of young pitchers coming back from Tommy John surgery, in which a damaged ligament in the forearm is replaced.

“If there was a guarantee, everybody would be doing it right now,” Yocum said. “You just don’t know. This may be the beginning of a trend.”

"His track record speaks for itself" doesn't sound like dissent, does it?  Looking at those two quotes I think all he's saying is he didn't say "you need to do this" to Rizzo, and Rizzo didn't ask "I can't make up my mind, what should I do?"

To me it seems like a mountain out of a molehill.  If Rizzo developed a plan based on input from Yocum, even if it was a general plan that they applied to Zimmermann, Strasburg, and next Giolito, it's not dishonest for him to say he was consulted.   If Yocum knows what guided the decision, he was in the loop.  Just because he didn't issue a directive doesn't mean this is all some maniacal conspiracy by Rizzo to keep his best pitcher off the mound for no good reason. 

Offline Minty Fresh

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It's probably a mixture of medical advice and the "Verducci Affect."  Combined with a little butthattery from Rizzo by saying that it was a purely medical decision.