Author Topic: Stats. Giggity!  (Read 5619 times)

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Offline Lintyfresh85

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Stats. Giggity!
« Topic Start: December 15, 2011, 03:43:48 PM »
Further research on  http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/camermi01.shtml  tells me Cameron might not be a great option. 


?

According to UZR he's saved 112 runs in his career, good for 11 wins on his defense alone.

Plus, he's a three time GG'er.

Trust me, I've worked with the equipment they use to figure out dWAR, it's not nearly as accurate as UZR is. BR has said as much in the past, as well.

Hell, even his dWAR has him at 9 wins above average on defense over his career. That's outstanding. Especially when you consider 60 WAR is usually considered the tipping point of HOF'er or not.

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: Stats. Giggity!
« Reply #1: December 15, 2011, 04:01:44 PM »
?

According to UZR he's saved 112 runs in his career, good for 11 wins on his defense alone.

Plus, he's a three time GG'er.

Trust me, I've worked with the equipment they use to figure out dWAR, it's not nearly as accurate as UZR is. BR has said as much in the past, as well.

Hell, even his dWAR has him at 9 wins above average on defense over his career. That's outstanding. Especially when you consider 60 WAR is usually considered the tipping point of HOF'er or not.

A cumulative 9 dWAR over a 16 year career is good?  Further 112 runs over a 16 year career is good?  11 wins in 16 years?  Seems uninspiring to me.

I can't argue the methodology since I am not familiar enough with it, I can only go on results.

And you and I both know GG's are subjective.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Stats. Giggity!
« Reply #2: December 15, 2011, 04:04:24 PM »
A cumulative 9 dWAR over a 16 year career is good?  Further 112 runs over a 16 year career is good?  11 wins in 16 years?  Seems uninspiring to me.

I can't argue the methodology since I am not familiar enough with it, I can only go on results.

And you and I both know GG's are subjective.

According to UZR 112 runs saved on defense puts him as the 16th best OF'er of all time in terms of runs saved.

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: Stats. Giggity!
« Reply #3: December 15, 2011, 04:05:36 PM »
According to UZR 112 runs saved on defense puts him as the 16th best OF'er of all time in terms of runs saved.

Then I'd be inclined to think there's something wrong with the metric.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Stats. Giggity!
« Reply #4: December 15, 2011, 04:06:56 PM »
Then I'd be inclined to think there's something wrong with the metric.

Why exactly is that?

Mike Cameron is one of the best OF'ers of all-time. I see nothing wrong with him being Top 20 defensively.

And I'm sorry if this is a rant... but I hate when people see a player high up in the ranks of a stat... and because they have something against that player, or disagree with the result, they automatically say the stat is broken.

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: Stats. Giggity!
« Reply #5: December 15, 2011, 04:10:05 PM »
Why exactly is that?

Mike Cameron is one of the best OF'ers of all-time. I see nothing wrong with him being Top 20 defensively.

Clearly we aren't going to agree on his defensive measures; how about the bat?  There does seem to be significant decline in the post-steroid testing era.  This team needs offensive production from its outfield and in a really bad way.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Stats. Giggity!
« Reply #6: December 15, 2011, 04:10:41 PM »
Sure, but what equipment is used for UZR?

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Stats. Giggity!
« Reply #7: December 15, 2011, 04:11:53 PM »
Sure, but what equipment is used for UZR?

interns with lots of monitors?

Offline The Chief

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Re: Stats. Giggity!
« Reply #8: December 15, 2011, 04:11:53 PM »
Didn't take mister "LAN/C derails every thread" to derail this thread :mg:

Then I'd be inclined to think there's something wrong with the metric.


Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Stats. Giggity!
« Reply #9: December 15, 2011, 04:12:29 PM »
Clearly we aren't going to agree on his defensive measures; how about the bat?  There does seem to be significant decline in the post-steroid testing era.  This team needs offensive production from its outfield and in a really bad way.

His .334 wOBA in 45 games with the Marlins in 2011 would have placed him second in wOBA for Nationals OF'ers. Only Mike Morse was better.

Even better wOBA than Werth.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Stats. Giggity!
« Reply #10: December 15, 2011, 04:13:10 PM »
interns with lots of monitors?

Which is better than how dWAR is calculated... which is people like me sitting in the stands trying to determine in one glance where the ball was caught, and at what speed it was hit.

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: Stats. Giggity!
« Reply #11: December 15, 2011, 04:13:13 PM »
Didn't take mister "LAN/C derails every thread" to derail this thread :mg:

We're arguing the merits of a player who fits the title of the thread.  Hater.   ;)

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Stats. Giggity!
« Reply #12: December 15, 2011, 04:14:59 PM »
To be honest, they just need to release field f/x to the public and be done with it.

That way, it's all computers, and there won't be errors.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Stats. Giggity!
« Reply #13: December 15, 2011, 04:15:49 PM »
To be honest, they just need to release field f/x to the public and be done with it.

That way, it's all computers, and there won't be errors.

I think I asked JCA this, but what does field f/x use?

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Stats. Giggity!
« Reply #14: December 15, 2011, 04:16:37 PM »
I think I asked JCA this, but what does field f/x use?

Same system as what tennis uses for their automatic line calls. Pretty sure it's called hawkeye... or something like that.

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: Stats. Giggity!
« Reply #15: December 15, 2011, 04:20:38 PM »
His .334 wOBA in 45 games with the Marlins in 2011 would have placed him second in wOBA for Nationals OF'ers. Only Mike Morse was better.

Even better wOBA than Werth.

Sample size?

Without trying to make my head hurt, would there really be that much of a difference if we signed a decent RHB and platoon that player with Rick Ankiel vs. giving Cameron the full-time job?  Plus, isn't Cameron kinda old?

I guess if it was short term and didn't hold up Harper...

But I do agree that I'd love to get Rollins.  Anybody but Desmond.

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: Stats. Giggity!
« Reply #16: December 15, 2011, 04:22:06 PM »
Same system as what tennis uses for their automatic line calls. Pretty sure it's called hawkeye... or something like that.

Tennis courts are always the same size.  No two baseball fields are alike.

Offline The Chief

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Re: Stats. Giggity!
« Reply #17: December 15, 2011, 04:24:02 PM »
We're arguing the merits of a player who fits the title of the thread.  Hater.   ;)

Wrong.   You're arguing about stats :razz:

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: Stats. Giggity!
« Reply #18: December 15, 2011, 04:25:21 PM »
Wrong.   You're arguing about stats :razz:

Based upon a player who fits the criteria.  :razz:

Hater.   :mg:

Offline The Chief

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Re: Stats. Giggity!
« Reply #19: December 15, 2011, 04:27:35 PM »
Based upon a player who fits the criteria.  :razz:

Hater.   :mg:

Doesn't matter, you've digressed from the original topic and are now discussing the stats themselves, not the player.

Ninnyhammer ;)

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: Stats. Giggity!
« Reply #20: December 15, 2011, 04:28:44 PM »
Doesn't matter, you've digressed from the original topic and are now discussing the stats themselves, not the player.

Ninnyhammer ;)

Then do your job and move this to the stats arguing thread you slacker.

After that give me my money back you cheap bastard!   :lmao:

Offline blue911

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Re: Stats. Giggity!
« Reply #21: December 15, 2011, 04:29:00 PM »
Tennis courts are always the same size.  No two baseball fields are alike.

I believe it's a system of 4 high speed cameras placed high in a ball park that capture the entire game. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 2.5 million frames per game, from which you can tell player movement couple with ball velocity. Probably the best measuring system to date.

Offline The Chief

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Re: Stats. Giggity!
« Reply #22: December 15, 2011, 04:29:40 PM »
I believe it's a system of 4 high speed cameras placed high in a ball park that capture the entire game. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 2.5 million frames per game, from which you can tell player movement couple with ball velocity. Probably the best measuring system to date.

"best to date" is like saying democracy is the least worst form of government.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Stats. Giggity!
« Reply #23: December 15, 2011, 04:30:00 PM »
Tennis courts are always the same size.  No two baseball fields are alike.

It tracks the ball.

I'm sure you can add variables such as location of defenders and ball speed into the equation and it'll figure it out as well.

Pitch f/x works great... it's made by the same company (I think)... and I know several MLB teams have bought the technology (field f/x)... so if they think it works, I'm sure it'd be fine for public consumption.

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: Stats. Giggity!
« Reply #24: December 15, 2011, 04:32:55 PM »
THREAD TITLE EPIC WIN!