Author Topic: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?  (Read 7508 times)

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Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #250: February 28, 2012, 07:01:12 PM »
But he's not playing under Olympic rules.  He's scott free as he's concerned.  Everything else is trivial at this point unless there's some sort of appeal he'll have to worry about.

as far as mlb is concerned he's clean- I think he can kiss any notion of the hall goodbye and it will be interested to see how this impacts his marketing deals

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #251: February 28, 2012, 07:20:20 PM »
as far as mlb is concerned he's clean- I think he can kiss any notion of the hall goodbye and it will be interested to see how this impacts his marketing deals

No way, if he puts up numbers werthy of the hall he'll get in.  You really don't think Sandberg and Ripken would have gotten if they had been testing back in the day do you?

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #252: February 28, 2012, 07:21:44 PM »
No way, if he puts up numbers werthy of the hall he'll get in. 

before or after other guys the mlb considers clean who have tested positive (Bonds/Clemens in particular)?

Quote
You really don't think Sandberg and Ripken would have gotten if they had been testing back in the day do you?

no I don't

Offline Obed_Marsh

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #253: February 28, 2012, 07:26:01 PM »
No way, if he puts up numbers werthy of the hall he'll get in.

:lol:


Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #254: February 28, 2012, 07:29:48 PM »
before or after other guys the mlb considers clean who have tested positive (Bonds/Clemens in particular)?

I'm basing my statement on what we know as of today.  Bonds and Clemens had credible evidence against them well after the fact.  In both of those cases they were putting up numbers well outside of reasonable ranges for their ages, especially Bonds.  Not saying that won't happen with Braun but, as of right now, all we have is that he skated on a technicality and is probably dirty. 

As I always like to say - time is the great equalizer.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #255: February 28, 2012, 09:03:09 PM »
Braun will not be a precedent setter.  The hall will have plenty of time to deal with suspected but unprovens like Bagwell, confirmed users before testing and clean after like maybe Ortiz,  involuntarily outed but not suspended like A-Rod, voluntarily admitted guys like McGwire, proven violators / suspended Manny, and criminally prosecuted but acquitted like Bonds.  There are literally so many precedents that will be developed over the next 15 - 20 years that either voters will have a clear view against or will say uncle and start letting in some of these guys.

Online mitlen

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #256: February 28, 2012, 09:04:22 PM »
Do they keep the samples or are they destroyed?

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #257: February 28, 2012, 09:04:38 PM »
If they don't let Bonds in none of these cheats deserve the "honor". 

Online imref

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #258: February 28, 2012, 09:42:50 PM »
No way, if he puts up numbers werthy of the hall he'll get in.  You really don't think Sandberg and Ripken would have gotten if they had been testing back in the day do you?

I don't think Braun ever gets in, no matter what, nor do Braun or Clemens.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #259: February 28, 2012, 09:48:32 PM »
I don't think Braun ever gets in, no matter what, nor do Braun or Clemens.

Bonds was HOF material if he got blown to bits over Iowa on his way to SF in 1993.

Online imref

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #260: February 28, 2012, 09:54:13 PM »
Bonds was HOF material if he got blown to bits over Iowa on his way to SF in 1993.

sorry, meant Bonds in the above.  Yeah, I don't think Bonds gets in (nor McGwire).

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #261: February 28, 2012, 09:56:09 PM »
sorry, meant Bonds in the above.  Yeah, I don't think Bonds gets in (nor McGwire).

McGwire was crap without the roids.  Bonds would have been a lock without them.

Online blue911

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #262: February 28, 2012, 10:41:40 PM »
McGwire was crap without the roids.  Bonds would have been a lock without them.

Except Bonds treated the HoF voters like crap. Paybacks are a nag.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #263: February 28, 2012, 10:54:47 PM »
Except Bonds treated the HoF voters like crap. Paybacks are a nag.

Barry Bonds don't care.

Offline shoeshineboy

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #264: February 29, 2012, 08:52:14 AM »
Braun will not be a precedent setter.  The hall will have plenty of time to deal with suspected but unprovens like Bagwell, confirmed users before testing and clean after like maybe Ortiz,  involuntarily outed but not suspended like A-Rod, voluntarily admitted guys like McGwire, proven violators / suspended Manny, and criminally prosecuted but acquitted like Bonds.  There are literally so many precedents that will be developed over the next 15 - 20 years that either voters will have a clear view against or will say uncle and start letting in some of these guys.

Yup. I figure at some point, it will all be asterisked like the dead ball era. It was so widespread for so long, that everyone is suspect. And even guys that didn't juice still benefitted from being on teams with guys that did. It's kind of crazy to look back and see the spike in the number of guys posting 40-50+ HRs a season like it's commonplace. At some point, the voters will start letting guys in despite the reports and rumors, based on a couple of subjective factors - 1) do they think the guy was a quality player even without the juice, 2) do they like him personally. Bonds's biggest issue is that he was viewed as a dick.


Offline Terpfan76

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #265: February 29, 2012, 01:35:59 PM »
Barry Bonds don't care.

I agree. Bonds would have been a HOF candidate well before suspicion of PED use ever became a question. That said, he behaved like an ass and basically told reporters to pound sand. I believe he'll get in some day, but whether or not he's still alive when it happens is the question. Putting the juicing issue beside for just a moment, he was an amazing player to watch and even more amazing was his batters eye. He might have seen one or two pitcher per game that he could possibly hit and generally, crushed them. It was amazing, just to bad it's tainted.

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #266: February 29, 2012, 03:53:34 PM »
Quote
Bonds was HOF material if he got blown to bits over Iowa on his way to SF in 1993.
Shoeless Joe was a lock if he just ended up stuck in a cornfield in Iowa.


OK, not analogous, but the question is can bad conduct after the HOF is earned disqualify a guy in the minds of a voter.  I think the answer is "Yes, it is possible that some voters make their mind up on later conduct." 

Online houston-nat

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #267: February 29, 2012, 04:02:13 PM »
Shoeless Joe was a lock if he just ended up stuck in a cornfield in Iowa.

That was how he ended up.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #268: February 29, 2012, 04:06:27 PM »
I like how all you have forgotten what a wonderful human being Ty Cobb was during his time on earth.

Online blue911

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #269: February 29, 2012, 04:08:41 PM »
Shoeless Joe was a lock if he just ended up stuck in a cornfield in Iowa.


OK, not analogous, but the question is can bad conduct after the HOF is earned disqualify a guy in the minds of a voter.  I think the answer is "Yes, it is possible that some voters make their mind up on later conduct." 

Pete Rose. He wasn't ever accused of betting as a player. Not by MLB or by the legal system. And he sure wasn't going to get in based on his managerial talents.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #270: February 29, 2012, 04:14:15 PM »
Pete Rose. He wasn't ever accused of betting as a player. Not by MLB or by the legal system. And he sure wasn't going to get in based on his managerial talents.

The scumbag that flipped on Rose (Paul the Bodybuilder) had proof of that happening during his player-manager years.

Online blue911

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #271: February 29, 2012, 04:17:06 PM »
The scumbag that flipped on Rose (Paul the Bodybuilder) had proof of that happening during his player-manager years.

I'm getting old. I never think of him as being a player after the Expos traded him.

Online JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #272: February 29, 2012, 04:31:40 PM »
Well, of course Shoeless Joe and Rose aren't even on the ballot, and so far the juicers have not been banned that way. 

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #273: February 29, 2012, 04:35:08 PM »
No comment on the lovely human being Ty Cobb?

Online imref

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #274: February 29, 2012, 04:36:31 PM »
No comment on the lovely human being Ty Cobb?

never met him.