Author Topic: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?  (Read 10563 times)

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Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #175: February 23, 2012, 06:39:48 PM »
http://www.wnff.net/index.php?topic=25339.msg907948#msg907948

Just to go with the Tweet Linty posted.

You were right all along.

All hail MDS.

But seriously, chain of custody was always the only way he could possibly get it overturned.

Offline tomterp

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #176: February 23, 2012, 07:40:08 PM »
AP report it was a 2 - 1 decision.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/7608360/ryan-braun-wins-appeal-50-game-suspension

so, he has herpes?

wow, sounds like he got off on a technicality.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #177: February 23, 2012, 07:46:08 PM »
wow, sounds like he got off on a technicality.

Yep, this year he's not a juicer, next year after the loophole is closed, someone with the same fact pattern is

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #178: February 23, 2012, 07:47:30 PM »
Yep, this year he's not a juicer, next year after the loophole is closed, someone with the same fact pattern is


You can't prove 100% that someone didn't taint the sample.

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #179: February 23, 2012, 07:49:08 PM »

You can't prove 100% that someone didn't taint the sample.

You never can in any case though, if the loophole is closed, same facts as Braun and you're a juicer

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #180: February 23, 2012, 07:49:42 PM »
once again i really hope he's clean, but if it's true that it's due to a technicality ... you'd have to think he's still not cleared right? 

that's not good. 

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #181: February 23, 2012, 07:52:56 PM »
once again i really hope he's clean, but if it's true that it's due to a technicality ... you'd have to think he's still not cleared right? 

that's not good. 



MLB is gonna try to nail his ass some other way. The whole thing is strange. So much talk about a cup of wizz.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #182: February 23, 2012, 07:54:13 PM »
once again i really hope he's clean, but if it's true that it's due to a technicality ... you'd have to think he's still not cleared right? 

that's not good. 

I don't really care- morse is one of my favorite players and he is a proven juicer


Offline tomterp

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #183: February 23, 2012, 07:54:40 PM »

You can't prove 100% that someone didn't taint the sample.

Somebody snuck into the guy's basement over the weekend, walked past the 65" TV and spiked the sample instead?

Sounds plausible to me.

 :lmao:


Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #184: February 23, 2012, 07:55:12 PM »
I don't really care- morse is one of my favorite players and he is a proven juicer




There's 2 categories in my mind - marginal guys trying to stay employed and jerk superstars padding stats. Bonds and Braun vs Logan and Morse.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #185: February 23, 2012, 07:55:54 PM »
Somebody snuck into the guy's basement over the weekend, walked past the 65" TV and spiked the sample instead?

Sounds plausible to me.

 :lmao:





I didn't say it was plausible, but that's what this Das fellow decided. After reading more facts, I conclude that I don't like Braun very much and Fainaru-Wada is a pee sniffer.

Offline tomterp

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #186: February 23, 2012, 07:57:04 PM »
You never can in any case though, if the loophole is closed, same facts as Braun and you're a juicer

I don't know how they close that "loophole".  Chain of custody is the standard for good reason.  It's failures like this that put incentive on testing organizations to conduct operations with perfection.

Just like when a cop fails to read Miranda rights to a suspect, it's a silly technicality but it still has to be done.

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #187: February 23, 2012, 08:00:46 PM »
I don't know how they close that "loophole".  Chain of custody is the standard for good reason.  It's failures like this that put incentive on testing organizations to conduct operations with perfection.

Just like when a cop fails to read Miranda rights to a suspect, it's a silly technicality but it still has to be done.


If the loophole is the FedEx date, a trusted currier had it in their possession an extra day- that seems easy to allow- after all, the same person has opportunity to tamper in the day they were allowed to have possession of the sample

As far as cops go, the bill of rights is a lot harder to alter than MLB drug policy

Offline tomterp

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #188: February 23, 2012, 08:06:18 PM »

If the loophole is the FedEx date, a trusted currier had it in their possession an extra day- that seems easy to allow- after all, the same person has opportunity to tamper in the day they were allowed to have possession of the sample


The problem is that for several days nobody was in direct possession of the sample.  Typically there are seals on the bottle (and I'm sure there were in this case) but there were undoubtedly speciman handling protocols that were breached.  Don't forget, that they are testing for many different substances from that one sample, and some may degrade quickly while others linger on indefinitely.  Thus temperature control and time till test are critical to integrity of the process, not to mention controls designed to render tampering impossible.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #189: February 23, 2012, 08:06:56 PM »
Apparently holding the sample with a courier for a few extra days is a very common thing with other sports drug testing around the world. The world doping agency is miffed why the suspension was overturned.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #190: February 23, 2012, 08:09:09 PM »
What I'm going to find interesting is if Braun manages to end his career with HOF numbers, will voters treat this as a positive or a negative test?

Offline tomterp

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #191: February 23, 2012, 08:13:35 PM »
Apparently holding the sample with a courier for a few extra days is a very common thing with other sports drug testing around the world. The world doping agency is miffed why the suspension was overturned.

I'm skeptical of that assertion.  I worked for a major DC area lab that processed 25,000 specimens per night, and if ONE were held at a courier's home over the weekend there would have been hell to pay.  The entire process is built around expediting samples to the test site where they are received and instructions given for the specific tests ("accessioned") and then they are routed promptly to the appropriate department.  Samples requiring chain of custody handling are treated slightly differently but generally follow the same process.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #192: February 23, 2012, 08:16:04 PM »
I can accept the botched chain of custody calls the test into question.  If we are going to rely on a scientific test to be the sole arbiter of a man's livelihood, then the evidence has to be handled properly, and the prosecution has to be clean, too.  If this were a $5MM fine, or whatever 1/3 of Braun's salary is, and it were assessed against a company with $15MM revenue, you can be darn sure that any competent K Street firm would raise the defense in an EPA, OSHA, or DOD contract case.

As for Braun, this will not clear him in the verdict of public opinion.  Not only that, depending on whether he can be disciplined for the same subject later, he might not  even be able to come out and say, "this was inadvertent, I did not intend to do anything except treat my herpes." If there is no limitation on bringing this back up (it is private, not criminal, so it depends on the MLB player agreement), the second he tries to make an excuse, it is an admission that the test was correct.  Even if he can come out with the herpes medicine excuse, he's still tarnished in the eyes of most people.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #193: February 23, 2012, 08:16:34 PM »
I'm skeptical of that assertion.  I worked for a major DC area lab that processed 25,000 specimens per night, and if ONE were held at a courier's home over the weekend there would have been hell to pay.  The entire process is built around expediting samples to the test site where they are received and instructions given for the specific tests ("accessioned") and then they are routed promptly to the appropriate department.  Samples requiring chain of custody handling are treated slightly differently but generally follow the same process.

Here's what I was referring to.

Quote
@JeffPassan

USADA CEO Travis Tygart says it's commonplace for collectors to keep samples refrigerated when taken late at night and on holidays, weekends


Quote
@JeffPassan

Tygart: "This stuff happens around the world all the time. They're collected at people's homes after the UPS or FedEx or DHL is closed."

Quote
@JeffPassan

Tygart: "The DCO (doping control officer) keeps it with them. These are well-trained people whose job it is to maintain it. I'm stunned."

Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #194: February 23, 2012, 08:18:21 PM »
The decision was a joke.

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #195: February 23, 2012, 08:22:22 PM »

MLB is gonna try to nail his ass some other way. The whole thing is strange. So much talk about a cup of wizz.

i don't blame them if there is proof if he is guilty. 

but if he's not then he should be cleared.

this isn't some big conspiracy, but it's a joke it's come to this.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #196: February 23, 2012, 08:24:29 PM »
i don't blame them if there is proof if he is guilty. 

but if he's not then he should be cleared.

At first I was pro Braun in this whole situation... but every time I expected him to defend himself by saying he didn't piss dirty, he didn't.

It's always, "unusual circumstances" or a technicality... never "I wasn't using PED's", and that really disappointed me.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #197: February 23, 2012, 08:28:47 PM »
i don't blame them if there is proof if he is guilty. 

but if he's not then he should be cleared.

this isn't some big conspiracy, but it's a joke it's come to this.

He's not getting cleared


Offline hammondsnats

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #198: February 23, 2012, 08:34:53 PM »
He's not getting cleared

well of course not because of the way it played out.

I WANT THE TRUTH!  I CAN HANDLE THE TRUTH!

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #199: February 24, 2012, 10:50:49 AM »