Author Topic: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?  (Read 9590 times)

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Offline blue911

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #150: December 20, 2011, 08:55:04 AM »
MDS - maybe i'm missing something, but the one who leaked the positive test result is the one who Braun will destroy legally, not whoever is talking about herpes. If it truly is due to the supposed herpes treatment, then this blows away any previously known crack in the security of the testing regime nationally and internationally. 

The Landis case had the problem that he cheated, so no one had much sympathy for the horrendous mishandling of tests and the leaks to the press.   The Clenbuterol farce looked isolated to the drug (half of one of mexico's national soccer teams was incorrectly disqualified from a tournament due to tainted meat and not doping, much like Contador) This may even kill the Armstrong case, which had the same prosecutor as the BALCO investigation and had the same leaks of grand jury testimony (surprise :roll: ) . 

The investigating authorities are in cahoots with a press that is only too eager to publish leaked results in total disregard for the consequences of a false accusation.   there is no regard for the legality of the information that has been obtained.  the handling by the prosecutors of the illegally seized 2003 test results in baseball is a disgrace to the bar and the Department of Justice (not only was grand jury info leaked, but the evidence in question never should have been in the hands of the government to begin with).  Fortunately, HIPAA has teeth.  I'm looking forward to seeing some well paid sharks in pinstripe suits ripping up some of the leakers.

How so? An athlete is still responsible for what he/she puts into their body. Taking a prescription medicine doesn't absolve Braun since MLB has procedures in place for medical exemptions. 

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #151: December 20, 2011, 08:57:27 AM »
MDS - maybe i'm missing something, but the one who leaked the positive test result is the one who Braun will destroy legally, not whoever is talking about herpes.  If it truly is due to the supposed herpes treatment, then this blows away any previously known crack in the security of the testing regime nationally and internationally. 

JCA - let me see if I can clarify what I was trying to say earlier. It's entirely possible that the person or persons that leaked the positive test results have the ability to determine other possible reasons for a positive test via simple deductive reasoning.  What I'm implying is that they would be able to do that without ever seeing his HIPAA protected medical records using only the testing results (and their own knowledge of the testing methodology) to determine other possibilities.  Now, whether the MLB testing results are covered by HIPAA is something I'm not versed enough to determine but I would assume leaking information is a violation of NDAs and possibly HIPAA.

Bottom line - someones ass will be in a sling but figuring out who said what and knew what will be like finding a needledick in a haystack.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #152: December 20, 2011, 08:59:26 AM »
How so? An athlete is still responsible for what he/she puts into their body. Taking a prescription medicine doesn't absolve Braun since MLB has procedures in place for medical exemptions. 

Exactly, I take a prescribed amphetamine every morning (Concerta) for ADD which, if not for medical exemptions, would flag me ever time I had to do a drug test.   I don't buy that it was the medication that caused it, I would buy that it was a medical condition though.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #153: December 20, 2011, 10:10:02 AM »
MDS - I may be mistaken, but I would have thought the positive test was HIPAA protected.  The stuff about herpes I think is less of a concern.  I agree, once the positive test for synthetic testosterone was leaked, someone could have speculated "hey, maybe he's getting treated for herpes, that would produce these results," which is what you suggest may have happened.  I just disagree that that is the controversial part of the case that is going to end up leading to law suits. 

Blue - I agree that an athlete is responsible for what he or she puts in his / her  body.  There used to be a lot of cold medicine incidents due to pseudofed, and many baseball players go through the exemption process for ADD medicine (imagine - someone who can't pay attention at a baseball game?  never happens).  Here, probably Braun needed to go through an exemption process, and it is not reported that he did.  That said, it too may have been protected information, so it may even be possible that he was authorized to take this stuff.  I could see someone not wanting too much information about their herpes out there for general consumption, even now, and why his side and MLB has not come out with a press conference on this.   

Still, 50 games for a legit medical treatment is pretty far from A-Rod's "Boli," Tejada / Palmeiro's "B-12", and the clear and the cream.  When most of us turn on the hate for the juicers, it is for the illegal substances or substances that have no medical value except to enhance performance.   The legit treatments for actual medical conditions tend to be the most sympathetic cases.

Offline tomterp

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #154: December 20, 2011, 10:13:05 AM »
MDS - I may be mistaken, but I would have thought the positive test was HIPAA protected.  The stuff about herpes I think is less of a concern.  I agree, once the positive test for synthetic testosterone was leaked, someone could have speculated "hey, maybe he's getting treated for herpes, that would produce these results," which is what you suggest may have happened. 

Maybe some of our members with herpes experience could opine on what treatments might be likely to create or introduce synthetic testosterone...

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #155: December 20, 2011, 10:28:15 AM »
MDS - I may be mistaken, but I would have thought the positive test was HIPAA protected.

Not necessarily.  The thing to keep in mind is that there are a number of different waivers and agreements you usually sign when you are subject to testing indemnifying the testing company of any wrongdoing should the results get outside of their control (i.e. results are given to MLB and the leak starts there).  It'll be interesting to see how this plays out in the coming weeks and months and what this does for the testing companies and testing in MLB in general.

That said, it too may have been protected information, so it may even be possible that he was authorized to take this stuff.  I could see someone not wanting too much information about their herpes out there for general consumption, even now, and why his side and MLB has not come out with a press conference on this.

I think something to consider is that usually when you have an severely out-of-range test result you run the test again using the same materials and methodology.  Last year when I had my annual physical my white blood cell count was through the roof and I wasn't sick or getting over being sick so my doctor ran a second test.  The second came back high as hell too.  Obviously the first thing you start thinking is "leukemia" when that happens, but what did he do - referred me to a hematologist for yet another test which was negative once they eliminated certain markers based on my med history. 

That MLB and Braun haven't mentioned a second test using the same tests and methodologies as the first tells me there MLB doesn't feel there's anything there that warrants a second test.  If any of these rumors (which is all we have right now) are founded it'll be interesting to see who leaked what and when they did it.  Usually the testing companies adjust their methodology and tests to ignore certain chemical markers that would yield a positive (i.e. ADD medications at therapeutic levels, certain NSAIDs, diabetes medications) so I would assume that Valtrex and/or a herpes outbreak would either be a part of said markers or be a flag for a follow-up test after obtaining more information (i.e. medical records) from the "guilty" party.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #156: December 20, 2011, 10:30:00 AM »
Maybe some of our members with herpes experience could opine on what treatments might be likely to create or introduce synthetic testosterone...

Is there any proof that the official results were synthetic testosterone though?

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #157: December 20, 2011, 10:40:43 AM »
I would be shocked if the MLBPA would sign off on an agreement that excludes HIPPA protection. If this does turn out to be Herpes and no official release or suspension comes out, could the union use this as a backdoor to get out of testing- i.e. the conditions to which the union agreed (privacy of test results pending appeal/the process) were ignored/not met by someone inside the testing company or the MLB

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #158: December 20, 2011, 10:42:12 AM »
I would be shocked if the MLBPA would sign off on an agreement that excludes HIPPA protection. If this does turn out to be Herpes and no official release or suspension comes out, could the union use this as a backdoor to get out of testing- i.e. the conditions to which the union agreed (privacy of test results pending appeal/the process) were ignored/not met by someone inside the testing company or the MLB

I think the union actually wants testing... at least the majority of them do.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #159: December 20, 2011, 10:44:04 AM »
I think the union actually wants testing... at least the majority of them do.

true, but if results keep getting leaked, they may reconsider. If this was handled properly, we would probably never know Braun tested positive/has the herp (if that is actually what happened). Now Braun is a joke

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #160: December 20, 2011, 10:47:59 AM »
Slow down everyone, this is all rumor based on nothing at this point.

Offline tomterp

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #161: December 20, 2011, 10:50:07 AM »
Is there any proof that the official results were synthetic testosterone though?

Depends on if you consider unsourced news leaks and rumors as "proof" or not.

Offline mitlen

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #162: December 20, 2011, 10:53:34 AM »
Doesn't HIPAA have to be waived by the individual?    I doubt a union or any other organization could waive any members right to privacy  ... even if the majority of the membership approved the agreement. 

Offline blue911

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #163: February 23, 2012, 05:11:40 PM »
Tom Haudricourt is reporting Ryan Braun won his appeal

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #164: February 23, 2012, 05:27:17 PM »

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #165: February 23, 2012, 05:39:52 PM »
I'd love to know what he was popped for.

MLB is fuming at the decision apparently. Even released a statement saying as much.

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #166: February 23, 2012, 05:43:27 PM »
good.  I'm a huge Braun fan ... glad it was ruled this way.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #167: February 23, 2012, 05:45:24 PM »
Braun never questioned the result, only how it was handled... So something probably did happen.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #168: February 23, 2012, 06:01:26 PM »
Quote
@JoelSherman

Heard that Braun defense was sample wasn't shipped in timely fashion to lab and that seemed to sway arbitrator in in his favor #Brewers

Quote
@karlravechespn

Appears Brauns team won because a courier didn't take positive test to fed ex building thought it was closed Saturday night..protocol?

That's not a cry of innocence as much as a technicality plea.

Offline The Chief

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #169: February 23, 2012, 06:11:17 PM »
Shouldn't we bump the thread about this?

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #170: February 23, 2012, 06:12:11 PM »
Shouldn't we bump the thread about this?

Sure.

Offline Nathan

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #171: February 23, 2012, 06:15:26 PM »
Done

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #172: February 23, 2012, 06:29:21 PM »
Quote
@JeffPassan

Sources: The particular chain-of-custody loophole Braun used is likely to be closed in an amendment to MLB's drug-testing program.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #173: February 23, 2012, 06:38:46 PM »

Offline PatsNats28

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Re: Ryan Braun is a Juicer?
« Reply #174: February 23, 2012, 06:39:44 PM »
So he still did it?