Author Topic: New CBA reached, will be announced next week.  (Read 1846 times)

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Online HalfSmokes

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Re: New CBA reached, will be announced next week.
« Reply #125: November 23, 2011, 01:50:34 PM »
Exactly what happened with crow- I guess it's better than the nba where a team controls a player's rights in perpetuity

Online imref

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Re: New CBA reached, will be announced next week.
« Reply #126: November 23, 2011, 03:26:19 PM »
Boras isn't happy:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/baseball-insider/post/scott-boras-says-cba-draft-provisions-will-lessen-the-value-of-franchises/2011/11/22/gIQAkmCNmN_blog.html

Quote
In a phone conversation, Boras argued that the new rules governing draft spending will affect baseball to the highest reaches of the league – he said that the limitations on spending could lessen the value of franchises. 

His case: the penalties for spending over an allotted amount will restrict the creativity and effect of scouting acumen of front offices, making it more difficult to inherit a losing team and turn it into a winner through the draft.

Boras, who has negotiated major contracts for Nationals draft choices Stephen Strasburg, Bryce Harper, Anthony Rendon, Alex Meyer and Brian Goodwin, frequently cited the Nationals as an example for why he believes the new draft rules in the CBA will be damaging.

“The franchise values, I think, are going to be affected by this,” Boras said. “New franchise owners such as the Lerners can no longer rely on the draft to improve their franchise in a major way. The GMs now have less flexibility, less ability to do it. It’s going to take longer to improve your team in a meaningful way.

“It used to be, the owner could think, ‘I’ll hire the right people, I’ll have the scouting intellect.’ Now artificial behavior prevents that. I think the decrease in values of GMs and scouting is a loss.

“If I’m a new franchise purchaser, if I’m the Lerner family and I’m buying the Nationals, and if you put limitations on Mike Rizzo, his value is worth a lot less to me. That limits the value of the principal employees.”

Boras also questioned the amount of money the changes will relatively save. Under the new rules, teams will spend roughly $200 million on the draft. Under the old rules, they would spend about $235 million, but that vacillates based on the available talent – “it doesn’t run in an evenly distributed cycle,” he said.

That difference, a small sum in the scheme of a sport that generated more than $7 billion this year, will affect the way teams can operate, Boras said.

“You can no longer use the draft in a way that you want,” Boras said. “If you’re the new owner of the Dodgers, and your club might be only able to spend $6 million. I think it dramatically affects the value of a franchise. You’re now prohibited from using the intellect to run your scouting department in order to improve your team.”

Boras also dismissed the idea that the new draft rules will help competitive balance, and actually argued they will hurt it. Boras predicted the top-tier talents in the draft, such as Stephen Strasburg, will not back down from their demands.

“We’re not changing the value of where we place our players,” Boras said. “We’ve proven the value of what those players are.”

If that holds true, the small-market teams presumably picking at the top of the draft would have to pass on those players or risk incurring a tax that may include the loss of another first-round pick the next year – the kind of commodity that has become the lifeblood for teams like the Rays and Athletics.

Meanwhile, teams at the backend of the draft – the Red Sox, Phillies and Yankees of the world – could afford to pay and the tax AND would not be as hurt by perhaps giving up a pick in the next draft, figuring it would not come until late in the first round, anyway.

“If I’m a GM of a big-market club, I’m going to go after that guy,” Boras said. “I’ll pay the tax. The other teams up top can’t get them. I’m going to get them. There’s real incentive to sign one great player. It’s better than getting two mediocre players.”

The effect could trickle up for teams trying to crawl out from under a history of losing, like the Nationals. The signing of Strasburg and Harper, for example, helped convince free agent Jayson Werth to sign with the Nationals. Let’s not pretend, now, that the $126 million over seven years wasn’t the first factor. But “the reason Jayson Werth considered the Nationals was because of their success in the draft,” Boras said.

“Exactly what the Nats have done, other teams will not be able to do,” Boras said. “The draft has been an amazing vehicle for competent GMs to use to improve their teams quickly.

“The difference is you get better so much faster when you can allocate resources to an amazing draft like the Nationals did last year. They wouldn’t have been able to do that” under the new rules.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: New CBA reached, will be announced next week.
« Reply #127: November 23, 2011, 03:53:22 PM »
Interesting take.  Sure it's a lot of Boras spin, but do you suppose the Nats might listen to Boras and adopt his strategy?  Pay for the stud high school 2 sport athlete that slips to the middle of the 1st round, and if it ends up that you are going to blow the draft cap, blow it in a big way to get guys who are slipping.  So you don't have a 1st the next year and lose a 1st for the year after next.   More guys will slip the next year, so rinse and repeat. 

If Boras can convince anyone to adopt this approach, it might be the Nats given their relationship.  It almost seems Boras has been using the Nats to establish his theories of how franchises should be run.

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: New CBA reached, will be announced next week.
« Reply #128: November 23, 2011, 04:18:01 PM »
Interesting take.  Sure it's a lot of Boras spin, but do you suppose the Nats might listen to Boras and adopt his strategy?  Pay for the stud high school 2 sport athlete that slips to the middle of the 1st round, and if it ends up that you are going to blow the draft cap, blow it in a big way to get guys who are slipping.  So you don't have a 1st the next year and lose a 1st for the year after next.   More guys will slip the next year, so rinse and repeat. 

If Boras can convince anyone to adopt this approach, it might be the Nats given their relationship.  It almost seems Boras has been using the Nats to establish his theories of how franchises should be run.


If we do this then it would have to be all out signing every good player we can to make this worthwhile.  I like it.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: New CBA reached, will be announced next week.
« Reply #129: November 23, 2011, 04:36:56 PM »
Interesting take.  Sure it's a lot of Boras spin, but do you suppose the Nats might listen to Boras and adopt his strategy?  Pay for the stud high school 2 sport athlete that slips to the middle of the 1st round, and if it ends up that you are going to blow the draft cap, blow it in a big way to get guys who are slipping.  So you don't have a 1st the next year and lose a 1st for the year after next.   More guys will slip the next year, so rinse and repeat. 

If Boras can convince anyone to adopt this approach, it might be the Nats given their relationship.  It almost seems Boras has been using the Nats to establish his theories of how franchises should be run.

I still want to know if there is a limit to how many first rounders you can give up? Can a team go over every year and just be down an additional two first rounders each year?


Offline tomterp

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Re: New CBA reached, will be announced next week.
« Reply #130: November 23, 2011, 04:51:32 PM »
Couldn't we draft 1 or 2 studs and then draft some cheaper college guys a la storen so that we still get some great talent.

Storen signed for close to "slot", didn't he?  That's not exactly "cheaper", only perhaps by comparison to the over slot types. 

Offline tomterp

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Re: New CBA reached, will be announced next week.
« Reply #131: November 23, 2011, 04:56:59 PM »
tom has me on ignore :stir:

Sorry, I didn't realize you'd posted a link to the BP article.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: New CBA reached, will be announced next week.
« Reply #132: November 23, 2011, 05:03:31 PM »
Storen signed for close to "slot", didn't he?  That's not exactly "cheaper", only perhaps by comparison to the over slot types. 

The knock on the Storen pick was that he was selected because he was signable at slot as opposed to the best available.  Hasn't worked out too bad so far.

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: New CBA reached, will be announced next week.
« Reply #133: November 23, 2011, 05:45:43 PM »
There are loopholes in every system.  Someone is going to find it soon and I hope the Nats exploit whatever it is.

Offline wpa2629

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Re: New CBA reached, will be announced next week.
« Reply #134: November 23, 2011, 05:46:19 PM »
Ryan Zimmerman was signable too - that hasn't worked out too badly either

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: New CBA reached, will be announced next week.
« Reply #135: November 23, 2011, 05:56:40 PM »
Ryan Zimmerman was signable too - that hasn't worked out too badly either

Zimmm was signed by MLB, irrelevant to the discussion that took place when the Lerners drafted Storen.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: New CBA reached, will be announced next week.
« Reply #136: November 23, 2011, 05:57:26 PM »
There are loopholes in every system.  Someone is going to find it soon and I hope the Nats exploit whatever it is.

Right, and the more complex the contract the more loopholes to be exploited.

Online Lintyfresh85

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Re: New CBA reached, will be announced next week.
« Reply #137: November 23, 2011, 06:08:10 PM »
Boras will find a way to blow up the system and get what he wants. He's never had problems squeezing blood from a stone before.

This time, I'm in favor of him doing what is needed to break the draft.

Offline wpa2629

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Re: New CBA reached, will be announced next week.
« Reply #138: November 23, 2011, 06:31:12 PM »
Zimmm was signed by MLB, irrelevant to the discussion that took place when the Lerners drafted Storen.

Relevant to the discussion about the new CBA and there being a limit (so to speak) on draft money you can spend. Not all top talent in the draft requires you to break the bank

Offline The Chief

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Re: New CBA reached, will be announced next week.
« Reply #139: November 24, 2011, 01:18:27 AM »
Did all 30 owners have to agree to this for it to pass?

Online KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: New CBA reached, will be announced next week.
« Reply #140: November 25, 2011, 09:25:19 AM »
Boras will find a way to blow up the system and get what he wants. He's never had problems squeezing blood from a stone before.

This time, I'm in favor of him doing what is needed to break the draft.

I wonder if all teams could incur the draft pick loss penalty or something.  What are they going to do, not have a first round of the draft?

Offline zimm_da_kid

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Re: New CBA reached, will be announced next week.
« Reply #141: November 25, 2011, 09:41:23 AM »
I wonder if all teams could incur the draft pick loss penalty or something.  What are they going to do, not have a first round of the draft?

I would love that. 


Offline The Chief

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Re: New CBA reached, will be announced next week.
« Reply #142: November 25, 2011, 01:50:11 PM »
Did all 30 owners have to agree to this for it to pass?

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: New CBA reached, will be announced next week.
« Reply #143: November 25, 2011, 02:00:51 PM »
I know NBA and NFL are simple majority- I don't think I've heard anyone comment on baseball

Offline The Chief

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Re: New CBA reached, will be announced next week.
« Reply #144: November 25, 2011, 02:04:18 PM »
Just wondering since people have mentioned small market teams selling out, but nobody has asked what our own owners did.  Hard to imagine they would go along with these insane draft restrictions after the way they've been building the team.

Offline PowerBoater69

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Re: New CBA reached, will be announced next week.
« Reply #145: November 25, 2011, 02:09:45 PM »
Just wondering since people have mentioned small market teams selling out, but nobody has asked what our own owners did.  Hard to imagine they would go along with these insane draft restrictions after the way they've been building the team.

One article I read referred to the Nats as the biggest losers based on revenue sharing going away in 2016 (yeah, we're four years away from contending) but I've seen no mention of any owner, ours or otherwise, opposing any portion of the deal.  My guess is that the deal did not have to be unanimous to get approved, but based on the large number of changes made and the lack of any negative comments from anyone except Boras that it likely was unanimous.  Seems like the horror show that the NBA is going through was pretty big incentive to compromise.