Author Topic: Vidro? (cleaned up)  (Read 3372 times)

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Montcobaseball

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Vidro? (cleaned up)
« Topic Start: July 25, 2005, 03:35:56 PM »
Thoughts on Vidro?  Could be a coincedence but you can trace the free fall of this team to the very day that he came back from his rehab assignement.

Offline Kenz aFan

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Vidro? (cleaned up)
« Reply #1: July 25, 2005, 04:29:50 PM »
I certainly cant hide that I've never been a Jose Vidro fan. I would trade him in a heartbeat if I could get a player who could bring home runners who get in scoring position. Vidro tends to get very lazy defensively and that in turn effects not just the team but other players. they see his lackadaisical play and either slip into the same routine or try to over compensate which results in their not playing at their best.

Is it a coincidence the team has been playing lackluster baseball since his return? Only if you're blind and sadly there are too many blind Nats fans, and one blind GM who haven't noticed his effect on the team. But hey, Vidro is a team leader, you cant trade him... Whatever was I ever thinking when I dared suggest trading him...

With each passing week, Vidro's value goes down, the same with Wilkerson, who except for the 1st month of the season, has been MUCH LESS than ordinary. Heck every outfielder for both the Devil Rays and the Royals (arguably the two WORST teams in baseball) is hitting better than BRAG WIFF-erson

I say trade both of them and be quick about it, because I cant stand watching them anymore...

Offline LetsGoNats

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Vidro? (cleaned up)
« Reply #2: July 25, 2005, 05:30:52 PM »
Quote from: "Kenz aFan"

I say trade both of them and be quick about it, because I cant stand watching them anymore...


I agree, esp. Vidro.    But at least he advanced Wilkerson from 2nd to 3rd in the 1st inning yesterday!

Offline Kenz aFan

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Vidro? (cleaned up)
« Reply #3: July 25, 2005, 07:11:45 PM »
Quote from: "LetsGoNats"
But at least he advanced Wilkerson from 2nd to 3rd in the 1st inning yesterday!

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Oh yea, I forgot... Let's keep him then... LOL

visionary

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Vidro? (cleaned up)
« Reply #4: July 26, 2005, 12:01:29 AM »
It seems like the Nats have been struggling ever since that blasted Cubs game.  Somehow that game just seemed to change the whole direction they were going in, even though they won.

Offline Nationalzfanatic88

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Vidro? (cleaned up)
« Reply #5: July 26, 2005, 12:43:27 AM »
Have you guys gone insane? Vidro and Wilkerson are important to this team. Vidro is a career .300 hitter. And Wilkerson plays outstanding at both Center Field and First Base. If it wasnt for him, we would have to use Baerga at first base and we all know how that went.

Offline JMW IV

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Vidro? (cleaned up)
« Reply #6: July 26, 2005, 01:15:59 AM »
Quote from: "Nationalzfanatic88"
Have you guys gone insane? Vidro and Wilkerson are important to this team. Vidro is a career .300 hitter. And Wilkerson plays outstanding at both Center Field and First Base. If it wasnt for him, we would have to use Baerga at first base and we all know how that went.


no, they haven't gone insane, and they DO have good points.  you have good points as well.  and that is what this forum is for.  so stick around and argue about it! :D

But just be warned, we don't type with the #1 Foam Finger on 24/7 in this forum.

this isn't BPG.   you can actually say things here that contradict the Homer status quo(read: Frank Robinson is God, anyone who plays for the Orioles is Satan, and the all of the Nationals players are the greatest players in the history of baseball) without getting jumped on about it.  :)

don't expect everyone here to live by the "I don't care if we win or lose, I'm just happy to have a team" credo.  There are a good amount of Montrealers on this board that have been watching this team all their lives, and their outlook on the team's personnel reflects that.

and ya know...winning is kinda fun to watch.

Diehard_Nationals_Fan

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Vidro? (cleaned up)
« Reply #7: July 26, 2005, 02:41:44 PM »
Quote from: "Kenz aFan"
I certainly cant hide that I've never been a Jose Vidro fan. I would trade him in a heartbeat if I could get a player who could bring home runners who get in scoring position. Vidro tends to get very lazy defensively and that in turn effects not just the team but other players. they see his lackadaisical play and either slip into the same routine or try to over compensate which results in their not playing at their best.

Is it a coincidence the team has been playing lackluster baseball since his return? Only if you're blind and sadly there are too many blind Nats fans, and one blind GM who haven't noticed his effect on the team. But hey, Vidro is a team leader, you cant trade him... Whatever was I ever thinking when I dared suggest trading him...

With each passing week, Vidro's value goes down, the same with Wilkerson, who except for the 1st month of the season, has been MUCH LESS than ordinary. Heck every outfielder for both the Devil Rays and the Royals (arguably the two WORST teams in baseball) is hitting better than BRAG WIFF-erson

I say trade both of them and be quick about it, because I cant stand watching them anymore...




I agree with you on almost all points, except Wilkerson.  I happen to like Wilkerson and feel he could be a very valuable asset to this team for years to come.

Vidro on the other hand, get rid of him and do it NOW.  IVe called for Vidro to be traded since just after his return.  I never really cared for him to begin with, he does not seem like the type of player who is going to "bring it" every game, and given the obvious affect his return has had on this club, its time for a change for the both of them.

I was there last tues, last thurs, and last sunday, and surprisingly there were a few BOOOOs here and there when Vidro came to bat.  I happend to be one of those boo birds.  And no, it wasnt opposing teams fans either.  Other Nationals fans were doing it as well.  SO not all nats fans are blinded by the light.

Lose vidro now. Please.

Offline PC

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Vidro? (cleaned up)
« Reply #8: July 26, 2005, 02:59:04 PM »
Quote
I was there last tues, last thurs, and last sunday, and surprisingly there were a few BOOOOs here and there when Vidro came to bat.


His 0 for 6 from the last game deserves more than a few boos.

Offline UMDNats

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Vidro? (cleaned up)
« Reply #9: July 26, 2005, 03:22:51 PM »
vidro has struggled, but you can trace the losing to Nick's injury. since his injury against the blue jays (snapping our home winning streak), weve scored less runs and lost more. getting him back and his .470 RISP avg will be huge.

Montcobaseball

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Vidro? (cleaned up)
« Reply #10: July 26, 2005, 03:38:50 PM »
Quote from: "Nationalzfanatic88"
Have you guys gone insane? Vidro and Wilkerson are important to this team. Vidro is a career .300 hitter. And Wilkerson plays outstanding at both Center Field and First Base. If it wasnt for him, we would have to use Baerga at first base and we all know how that went.



       I haven't seen any sign of this .300 hitter yet and his fielding is pathetic.  And Wilkerson.  Is that the same Wilkerson who has struck out 106 times?

Offline Kenz aFan

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Vidro? (cleaned up)
« Reply #11: July 26, 2005, 04:33:21 PM »
Quote from: "Diehard_Nationals_Fan"
I agree with you on almost all points, except Wilkerson.  I happen to like Wilkerson and feel he could be a very valuable asset to this team for years to come.


I would like to know what's valuable about Wilkerson?

I wont deny he can play first and the outfield, but he's 1) among worst clutch hitters in baseball 2) has been a rally killer more often than I can count 3) when the team absolutely needs a baserunner he strikes out 4) for a guy who is supposed to be a power hitter, he really doesn't have any. 5) Wilkerson is a high quality AAAA player at best. The sooner he (along with Vidro) is gone the sooner the Nats will start winning on a regular basis.

Diehard_Nationals_Fan

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Vidro? (cleaned up)
« Reply #12: July 26, 2005, 05:02:23 PM »
Ok. Im not going to go tit for tat on Wilkerson.  Hes a way better fielder than Vidro period.  We have WON MANY GAMES with him in the line up, you cannot dispute that.

Look at the W's with Wilkerson in the lineup VS the W's with Vidro.  Thats enough for me right there.   Could it be that Wilkerson is not yet hte best player he can be?  In any case, id rather KEEP him in the organisatin, because one thing this  organisaion SORELY LACKS is any kind of depth.. what so ever.

Offline Kenz aFan

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Vidro? (cleaned up)
« Reply #13: July 26, 2005, 06:20:38 PM »
I (and my friends) have come home from a game at the Big Oh cursing Wilkerson and he his not being able to "drive home" runs in key situations. It got to the point where it was no longer funny... Had it not been for Wilkerson, the Expos would have had a fighting chance at playing .500 last season. Sometimes having a good glove is just not enough (see Guzman)

If I took the time to gather the numbers I could show you that, prior to this season, the team's winning percentage with Vidro in the lineup as opposed to Wilkerson's were higher. But I just cant be bothered.

Wiff-erson has a .230 batting average since late April, when except for 3 weeks to start the season, he's been a BIG ZERO... Trading him is useless, because no one would want him right now anyway....

CapitolCityGoofball

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Vidro? (cleaned up)
« Reply #14: July 26, 2005, 07:29:35 PM »
Hello, new to this forum.   Nice to have a place with intelligent discussion.  (blast that accursed mlb.com forum!!!)

I have only followed this team since it came to DC, so that is what I base my opinions on.  I am a 20 year baseball fan.

This year, the Nats record without is Vidro 35-18!!, with Vidro it is 20-26.  One can argue that other players have been out or slumping while he was in the lineup, but he has botched too many chances in the field and at the plate for the W-L record to be pure coincidence.

Even if Vidro hits his stride offensively the last 2 months,  he is still a terrible baserunner and fielder.  The booted plays are bad enough, but  I can not recall seeing Vidro make a diving effort for a ball.   Guillen has talked about how he does not understand some of the great hitting multi-millionaire outfielders who don't respect the game enough to put forth the all out effort in the field.  I feel the same way - I have a hard time rooting for a guy who does not appear to play hard and get dirty.

Offline Kenz aFan

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Vidro? (cleaned up)
« Reply #15: July 26, 2005, 07:49:44 PM »
Agreed, Vidro may have been a great player a few years ago, but 2 consecutive seasons where he spent 50 games on the DL are a big indicator he's slowed down considerably.

As for Wilkerson, I guess you can make a pretty good argument for and against him. Since no two baseball fans see things exactly the same, that's what makes forums like this one so much fun...

Diehard_Nationals_Fan

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Vidro? (cleaned up)
« Reply #16: July 26, 2005, 08:03:43 PM »
Im not going to argue Wilkersons Numbers.  They are not the greatest.  However Wilkerson at least brings something to the table every night.  Wilkerson TRIES.  Wilkerson doesnt half ass it on the field.  Ill take a guy that at least TRIES his best and wants to win, over an over paid lazy ass SOB like Vidro , ANY DAY.

bramos

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Vidro? (cleaned up)
« Reply #17: July 26, 2005, 08:06:26 PM »
The precipitous decline of Vidro is a heartbreaking disappointment for those of us who has followed his career from Montreal.  Honest to God, for about three years between 2000-2003, he was a phenomenal player.  Even at a relatively young 31, it appears he has lost both his agility on the field and his swing at the plate.  Perhaps the injuries he suffered over the last two seasons have accelerated his slide.  Regardless, his return to duty was thought to provide a huge lift for the team.  Instead, his presence has only generated uproar from the fans.  However, trading him right now when he has very little stock in the market place is not the answer, especially with the morale of the players at such a low.  It would be tantamount to throwing in the towel.  Unless he's become a poison in the clubhouse, Vidro's value is best kept here.  We need him to rebound and to step it up.  Let's see how he fares against the Braves.

Diehard_Nationals_Fan

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Vidro? (cleaned up)
« Reply #18: July 27, 2005, 09:25:26 AM »
You are right as well, there can be good arguments made both FOR and AGAINST Wilkerson.   Im playing devils advocate here and arguing for him, where I dont feel there really is ANY good argument FOR vidro here.

Vidro just needs to GO, plain and simple, no questions.

Offline Ray D

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Vidro? (cleaned up)
« Reply #19: July 27, 2005, 10:12:42 AM »
Quote from: "CapitolCityGoofball"
 I can not recall seeing Vidro make a diving effort for a ball.  


Prior to his injury I didn't see him dive, or even ever really make an effort at a ball outside his (limited) range.   But in the first series after he returned, I saw him dive twice!  I came to the opinion that he had not been 100% before the injury and the long rest left him at full strength.  But other than that first series back, he looks like pre-injury again. Perhaps he's again taken a beating not 100%.

Offline tomterp

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Vidro? (cleaned up)
« Reply #20: July 27, 2005, 10:32:13 AM »
Spivey was twice the fielder Vidro is.   I hope Junior can overcome his lingering shoulder problem and return to his prior offensive form, he could be a long term answer at the position if so.

Course I'm talking about next season.

Offline The Chief

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Vidro? (cleaned up)
« Reply #21: July 27, 2005, 04:17:38 PM »
OK guys I went through and tidied up this thread a bit.  I think you all know what I'm talking about.  Let's stick to the topic and keep it civil, alright?