Author Topic: RFK at 50 Years OLD  (Read 3179 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 19137
Re: RFK at 50 Years OLD
« Reply #50: October 24, 2017, 09:58:34 AM »
What again is the issue with DC and the name?  It's the city that objects to the name, not the Federal Government, who owns the land and has control over who plays there. The Federal Government doesn't care about the name (at least as currently constituted).  So DC really has no say in the matter.  Is funding the issue? That the Redskins would expect DC to pay for the stadium?

the federal government won't be supplying the hundreds of millions Snyder will demand to build the stadium

Online Ray D

  • Posts: 9431
Re: RFK at 50 Years OLD
« Reply #51: October 24, 2017, 10:12:45 AM »
the federal government won't be supplying the hundreds of millions Snyder will demand to build the stadium
And who will?  DC? Why would they - nevermind the name - what does DC have to gain?  There was a logical argument for funding a baseball stadium.  I don't see the argument for a football stadium.

Online HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 19137
Re: RFK at 50 Years OLD
« Reply #52: October 24, 2017, 10:17:11 AM »
And who will?  DC? Why would they - nevermind the name - what does DC have to gain?  There was a logical argument for funding a baseball stadium.  I don't see the argument for a football stadium.

what does any city that builds a stadium have to gain?

Online Ray D

  • Posts: 9431
Re: RFK at 50 Years OLD
« Reply #53: October 24, 2017, 10:46:42 AM »
what does any city that builds a stadium have to gain?
When it came down to a decision on Nationals Stadium, despite strong opposition, I think the deciding factor was that  we would lose the team to another city if there was not going to be a stadium, and the Council did not want to be responsible for maintaining DC as a Non Major League City.  That's not the case with the Redskins.  DC is an NFL city (despite where the Redskins play) and the Redskins aren't leaving the area if the city doesn't build them a stadium. 
nother argument is that baseball generates far more revenue with 80+ games, than football, with a tenth that  many.

Online HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 19137
Re: RFK at 50 Years OLD
« Reply #54: October 24, 2017, 10:54:06 AM »
When it came down to a decision on Nationals Stadium, despite strong opposition, I think the deciding factor was that  we would lose the team to another city if there was not going to be a stadium, and the Council did not want to be responsible for maintaining DC as a Non Major League City.  That's not the case with the Redskins.  DC is an NFL city (despite where the Redskins play) and the Redskins aren't leaving the area if the city doesn't build them a stadium. 
nother argument is that baseball generates far more revenue with 80+ games, than football, with a tenth that  many.

I think for football, you can ask what does Loudon, PG, or whereever have to gain. If every jurisdiction answers the question honestly, I think the redskins end up without a new stadium. I think it applies pretty universally to pro stadiums- Detroit just paid $850 million and the justification was to revitalize - it's still a new and shiny building, but there is no way it will ever drive to traffic to justify the price and it's already having trouble selling tickets

 

To the extent that the nationals are an exception, I think it's more because it required the city to clear the area for development than the stadium itself.

Online bluestreak

  • Posts: 4076
Re: RFK at 50 Years OLD
« Reply #55: October 24, 2017, 11:07:49 AM »
I think Nats Park was really successful in spurring the development in the Navy Yard neighborhood. Whether it was worth the price tag or if it would have happened anyway, I’m not sure. But it seems on first glance to have been worth it.

Online Ray D

  • Posts: 9431
Re: RFK at 50 Years OLD
« Reply #56: October 24, 2017, 11:20:20 AM »
I think for football, you can ask what does Loudon, PG, or whereever have to gain.


Absolutely nothing.  Who funded FedEx?  (Originally called something else, I think Redskins Stadium.)  Was it Cooke?   

Offline Elvir Ovcina

  • Posts: 1982
Re: RFK at 50 Years OLD
« Reply #57: October 24, 2017, 11:21:30 AM »
What probably would happen is a demographic shift.  Redskins fans would be mostly from Virginia and DC, with few Maryland fans, who will eventually become Ravens fans.

That would be a disaster for the testosterone-deficient toddler who owns the team, who is both from and lives in Maryland.  Why surrender the half of your market where there is competition to move to the half where there isn't?  (I'm not disagreeing with your assertion, by the way, just pointing out that it's an additional reason Loudoun seems unlikely/stupid.)

Absolutely nothing.  Who funded FedEx?  (Originally called something else, I think Redskins Stadium.)  Was it Cooke?

Yes, which is why it was originally Jack Kent Cooke Stadium. 

Online HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 19137
Re: RFK at 50 Years OLD
« Reply #58: October 24, 2017, 11:50:12 AM »
Absolutely nothing.  Who funded FedEx?  (Originally called something else, I think Redskins Stadium.)  Was it Cooke?   

Cooke, but he got a sweatheart land deal

That would be a disaster for the testosterone-deficient toddler who owns the team, who is both from and lives in Maryland.  Why surrender the half of your market where there is competition to move to the half where there isn't?  (I'm not disagreeing with your assertion, by the way, just pointing out that it's an additional reason Loudoun seems unlikely/stupid.)


one would hope they would decide based on thoughtful analysis of their ticket base, season ticket base and expected demographic shifts. My guess is that danny will go to whoever will build him something to rival jerry world or the monstrosity vegas is going to build for davis

Offline OldChelsea

  • Posts: 7425
  • From the best seat in the house at Nationals Park
Re: RFK at 50 Years OLD
« Reply #59: October 24, 2017, 12:02:08 PM »
RFK is the  best remaining location. Unless there's an old, unused rail yard in Springfield or somewhere? Near a Metro stop?

During the search for the Redskins' post-RFK site there actually was an old rail yard - the RF&P yards in northeast Alexandria - but the locals would have nothing of it.. Now instead of a stadium used 10 times a year (and generating traffic 10 times a year) there's a shopping mall generating traffic 365 days a year.

Alexandria/Arlington has a reputation as one of the great NIMBY centres  - but in fairness one must also consider the viewpoint of people like my sister, who resided at that time (and still resides) in central Alexandria and whose children were quite young at the time - and who did not relish the possibility of drunks packed six-to-an-SUV careening through her neighbourhood on matchdays.

What about the still-vacant area near the Twin Bridges? The Marriott that once occupied the site was torn down some twenty years ago and the land has lain fallow ever since.

Online HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 19137
Re: RFK at 50 Years OLD
« Reply #60: October 24, 2017, 12:22:35 PM »
During the search for the Redskins' post-RFK site there actually was an old rail yard - the RF&P yards in northeast Alexandria - but the locals would have nothing of it.. Now instead of a stadium used 10 times a year (and generating traffic 10 times a year) there's a shopping mall generating traffic 365 days a year.

Alexandria/Arlington has a reputation as one of the great NIMBY centres  - but in fairness one must also consider the viewpoint of people like my sister, who resided at that time (and still resides) in central Alexandria and whose children were quite young at the time - and who did not relish the possibility of drunks packed six-to-an-SUV careening through her neighbourhood on matchdays.

What about the still-vacant area near the Twin Bridges? The Marriott that once occupied the site was torn down some twenty years ago and the land has lain fallow ever since.

potomac yards worked out incredibly well for Alexandria long term- instead of a monstrosity funded by tax payers they get a useful mall and the surrounding area is being developed as a decent neighborhood

Offline Five Banners

  • Posts: 427
Re: RFK at 50 Years OLD
« Reply #61: October 24, 2017, 03:46:53 PM »
This is from an old PC post. What is written about the lead contamination is very basic, but later articles had city officials citing the lead issue (seven figures worth of cleanup in 1993, if I recall) and the nos factor making the place a non-starter for a stadium unless there was three years lead time.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/02/AR2005120202068.html

Saturday, December 3, 2005; A01

Several council members told Reinsdorf that if baseball did not agree to the city's demands, they would push to move the project to a site adjacent to Robert F. Kennedy Memorial Stadium. That location could save the city more than $100 million, some council members have said.

But that option would require a costly environmental cleanup of the site and federal and congressional approval, a process that could mean long delays before construction.

The land is owned by the National Park Service and leased to the District at no cost. The 50-year lease, which ends in 2038, allows for only one stadium on the 200-acre site. Building a new complex would require Congress to amend the 1957 law that authorized the stadium, said John Parsons, associate director for the Park Service's National Capital Region.

The project also would require an environmental impact statement and approval from the Park Service, the National Capital Planning Commission and the U.S. Commission of Fine Arts, Parsons said.

He said the whole process could take two to three years. "That's quite a bit different than their existing circumstance because the other proposal is not on federal land," he said.

An environmental impact study completed in 1993 found potentially harmful lead contamination in the soil.

Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

  • Posts: 14445
  • babble on
Re: RFK at 50 Years OLD
« Reply #62: October 24, 2017, 03:53:50 PM »
In the quarter century since the last EIS, a hazardous buildup of Budweiser has also affected the site. 
An environmental impact study completed in 1993 found potentially harmful lead contamination in the soil.

Online HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 19137
Re: RFK at 50 Years OLD
« Reply #63: October 24, 2017, 03:56:01 PM »
In the quarter century since the last EIS, a hazardous buildup of Budweiser has also affected the site. 

I hear urine neutralizes it

Offline tomterp

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 32485
  • Hell yes!
Re: RFK at 50 Years OLD
« Reply #64: October 24, 2017, 07:16:03 PM »
Is this a record? Quoting a six year old post? Where are Mitlen and Spider anyways?

Oh no, there are some long memories here.

Offline tomterp

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 32485
  • Hell yes!
Re: RFK at 50 Years OLD
« Reply #65: October 24, 2017, 07:20:29 PM »
Those who are able to read the articles are paying, I do believe. When the Post went over to a digital subscription system, the only reason I wasn't assessed any further was because I already had home delivery of the print edition.


I have a daily print subscription and they've never charged me for the online site access.

Offline tomterp

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 32485
  • Hell yes!
Re: RFK at 50 Years OLD
« Reply #66: October 24, 2017, 07:21:45 PM »
potomac yards worked out incredibly well for Alexandria long term- instead of a monstrosity funded by tax payers they get a useful mall and the surrounding area is being developed as a decent neighborhood

So lucky, a Target!  Old Navy!  Makes me long for the old 'hood.

Online HalfSmokes

  • Posts: 19137
Re: RFK at 50 Years OLD
« Reply #67: October 24, 2017, 07:23:52 PM »
So lucky, a Target!  Old Navy!  Makes me long for the old 'hood.

Shoppers was the best grocery store in the area when we lived in crystal city. Supposedly that target is one of the busiest in the mid Atlantic

Offline tomterp

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 32485
  • Hell yes!
Re: RFK at 50 Years OLD
« Reply #68: October 24, 2017, 07:30:43 PM »
Shoppers was the best grocery store in the area when we lived in crystal city. Supposedly that target is one of the busiest in the mid Atlantic

I recall when they built the World's Longest Strip Mall that it was said to be "temporary" and would be redeveloped at some point (10 years??) later.  Guess it's been about 20.

I lived in Rosemont between 91-99, saw a lot of changes during that time and since.  Area around Braddock Metro was very slow to develop but eventually it did of course.

Online GburgNatsFan

  • Posts: 18387
  • Quadrophenia
Re: RFK at 50 Years OLD
« Reply #69: October 24, 2017, 09:59:25 PM »
Yep. Only seems fair. We've been talking about dropping the daily and going digital-only, but some mornings if I don't sleep well I get up early and it's great to have it in print.

I have a daily print subscription and they've never charged me for the online site access.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 24622
  • Platoon - not just a movie, a baseball obsession
Re: RFK at 50 Years OLD
« Reply #70: October 25, 2017, 08:56:37 AM »
Yep. Only seems fair. We've been talking about dropping the daily and going digital-only, but some mornings if I don't sleep well I get up early and it's great to have it in print.

For me, I like news that is not specifically targeted to what the algorithm says I'm interested in, based on prior clicks and other info.  The joy of reading a print newspaper is finding interesting stuff you would not necessarily look for.  Builds broader knowledge rather than narrowing your world view.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 24622
  • Platoon - not just a movie, a baseball obsession
Re: RFK at 50 Years OLD
« Reply #71: October 25, 2017, 09:01:38 AM »
I recall when they built the World's Longest Strip Mall that it was said to be "temporary" and would be redeveloped at some point (10 years??) later.  Guess it's been about 20.
  Well, what you are seeing is with the build out of the rest of the yards, both around South Glebe and to the South of West Glebe, is they will come back and upgrade what is in the middle.  I'd guess Potomac Ave is going to be a main drag.  You'll see the movie property go down for some stores or more condos, and you'll see the backside of Potomac Yards mall get some Potomac Ave facing development.  The center street through the town houses (Main Line Ave?) will also get extended through the parking lot.  It'll be 2025, after Metro, before these changes happens, but really that's only another 8 years or so.  They'll just need to come up with some new street names, like Cross Glebe or Glebe2Glebe, and they'll be all set.

Online Ray D

  • Posts: 9431
Re: RFK at 50 Years OLD
« Reply #72: October 25, 2017, 09:23:47 AM »
1985 against the New England Patriots...the Skins were trailing and most of the people left early, but we stayed and were treated to the 15 Minutes of Fame of Babe Laufenberg in a 37-35 comeback win.

Exhibition game I presume.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

  • Global Moderator
  • ****
  • Posts: 24622
  • Platoon - not just a movie, a baseball obsession
Re: RFK at 50 Years OLD
« Reply #73: October 25, 2017, 10:50:44 AM »
Exhibition game I presume.
that was the Pats team that went to Superbowl XX and got crushed by the Bears.  Still, it was an 11-5 team.  Was it Grogan or Eason at QB?  Gosh did I hate Eason. . .

you have to remember, the Pats stunk up until Kraft bought them in 1993 or so.  For about 35 years, they had maybe 4 or season where they were near the top of their league (I'd say the year in the AFL we were blown out by Keith Lincoln and the Chargers, a couple years in the 70s under Fairbanks, and that Ray Berry team that won 3 road playoff games to make the Super Bowl and become road kill under the Refrigerator).

Online Ray D

  • Posts: 9431
Re: RFK at 50 Years OLD
« Reply #74: October 25, 2017, 01:24:39 PM »
  Was it Grogan or Eason at QB?  Gosh did I hate Eason. . .

Eason started; replaced by Grogon.