Is it time to once and for all end the claim that the Leners are cheap?

[PANatsFan]

Look, I hate the Leners and all that they stand for.

[tomterp]

Look, I hate the Leners and all that they stand for.

What is it that they stand for?

[spidernat]

so guesstimate next year's payroll?  $53 million?

It should be higher next season by default. But how much higher? This year they learned that salary relief in mid season is always an option.

[spidernat]

Look, I hate the Leners and all that they stand for.

[tomterp]

It should be higher next season by default.

Werth's salary goes up annually, as follows per Cots:

11:$10M, 12:$13M, 13:$16M, 14:$20M, 15:$21M, 16:$21M, 17:$21M

And Zimmerman's too:

11:$8.925M, 12:$12M, 13:$14M

They stand to lose a few probably:  Pudge at $3m, Gorzelanny at $2m, Livan $1m.  There's no big savings for another year until LaRoche falls off.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling were OK...

Schilling was not a free agent (to the red sox).  He was traded for Brandon Lyon, Casey Fossum, and Jorge De La Rosa.  Johnson may have been an FA from Houston.  I kind of use post-Mussina as a demarcation point.

[blue911]

Werth's salary goes up annually, as follows per Cots:

11:$10M, 12:$13M, 13:$16M, 14:$20M, 15:$21M, 16:$21M, 17:$21M

And Zimmerman's too:

11:$8.925M, 12:$12M, 13:$14M

They stand to lose a few probably:  Pudge at $3m, Gorzelanny at $2m, Livan $1m.  There's no big savings for another year until LaRoche falls off.

Marquis?

[spidernat]

Werth's salary goes up annually, as follows per Cots:

11:$10M, 12:$13M, 13:$16M, 14:$20M, 15:$21M, 16:$21M, 17:$21M

And Zimmerman's too:

11:$8.925M, 12:$12M, 13:$14M

They stand to lose a few probably:  Pudge at $3m, Gorzelanny at $2m, Livan $1m.  There's no big savings for another year until LaRoche falls off.

Marquis is 7.5, also you have Cora, Hairston, Gaudin, Stairs, Slaten. They have enough coming off this year to cover the raises due next season. The question is what they will do to improve the onfield product in areas where it is needed. Will they take on salary or try the cheap way again and spackle it and get people to buy into that same old crap?


Edit: Blue beat me to posting Marquis' number coming off.

[tomterp]

Marquis?

True, I overlooked him because he's not on the Cot's list of Nats players.

Marquis made $7.5m this year, so the Nats will save what, 2/3 of that, say $4m? 

[PANatsFan]

What is it that they stand for?

The eradication of the letter "R" from the middle of names! at Ed Lener and Mork Lener.

[Evolution33]

Marquis is 7.5, also you have Cora, Hairston, Gaudin, Stairs, Slaten. They have enough coming off this year to cover the raises due next season. The question is what they will do to improve the onfield product in areas where it is needed. Will they take on salary or try the cheap way again and spackle it and get people to buy into that same old crap?


Edit: Blue beat me to posting Marquis' number coming off.

They will let those salaries come off and play with a less than 25 man roster.

[HalfSmokes]

Some will be back filled with league min. guys (Peackock Milone and Lombo presumably) Strassburg will be making $3 million, so that's net exactly an expensive addition. The overall salary should rise, but it doesn't necessarily have to

[JMW IV]

to answer the original question of this thread.

No.  Not until the Lerners consistently field a roster with a payroll that is at the very least in the middle of the NL pack, and not at or near the bottom.

when the Nats have a consistent 80m-ish payroll year in and year out, and they shell out to KEEP our good players, then we can stop calling them cheap.

[tomterp]

to answer the original question of this thread.

No.  Not until the Lerners consistently field a roster with a payroll that is at the very least in the middle of the NL pack, and not at or near the bottom.

when the Nats have a consistent 80m-ish payroll year in and year out, and they shell out to KEEP our good players, then we can stop calling them cheap.

So, if the Nats win the World Series with a $60m team, you're still going to consider them cheap?

[EdStroud]

Schilling was not a free agent (to the red sox).  He was traded for Brandon Lyon, Casey Fossum, and Jorge De La Rosa.  Johnson may have been an FA from Houston.  I kind of use post-Mussina as a demarcation point.

yes, Randy Johnson was a free agent signing with Arizona

[spidernat]

True, I overlooked him because he's not on the Cot's list of Nats players.

Marquis made $7.5m this year, so the Nats will save what, 2/3 of that, say $4m? 

2/3 of that would be 5 million. Are you saying when talking about this year's payroll we should deduct what they dumped in salary relief? I would agree with that but people will continue to use what they "committed" to for Opening Day. If you were to deduct the savings plus the cash that was brought back in one deal then payroll for this season would dip to a number even lower than last season's. But then again last year they received salary relief when they dumped Guzman and Capps. 

But the number that is always used is the Opening Day number so I see it as a 7.5 savings from 2011's number towards 2012's number.

[Minty Fresh]

So, if the Nats win the World Series with a $60m team, you're still going to consider them cheap?

There's no pleasing some people. 

They can win a World Series with a $60 payroll, a $60MM payroll or a $60BB payroll for all I care.  Just win one.

[Evolution33]

2/3 of that would be 5 million. Are you saying when talking about this year's payroll we should deduct what they dumped in salary relief? I would agree with that but people will continue to use what they "committed" to for Opening Day. If you were to deduct the savings plus the cash that was brought back in one deal then payroll for this season would dip to a number even lower than last season's. But then again last year they received salary relief when they dumped Guzman and Capps. 

But the number that is always used is the Opening Day number so I see it as a 7.5 savings from 2011's number towards 2012's number.

I figure John Lannan and Morse will get raises. The Nats will trade them to avoid this.

[spidernat]

So, if the Nats win the World Series with a $60m team, you're still going to consider them cheap?

 

[cmdterps44]

There's no pleasing some people.  

They can win a World Series with a $60 payroll, a $60MM payroll or a $60BB payroll for all I care.  Just win one.

A 60$ payroll would be impressive.

My whole LAC forte is I want them to spend money on quality MLB players. I've been so tired of seeing retreAAAAds out there year in and year out, aside from the strong few. Having a crappy payroll is a big reason for having such minimal talent.

post 10000!!!

[wpa2629]

I'm not interested in throwing wads of cash at retreads, I want the team to spend on the farm and then spend BIG to keep our home grown stars. Add a marquis (not Jason) free agent here and there, (Werth, a Cf maybe?) as needed and bolster the bench and pen with mid-level FAs and I'd be fine with that going forward.

[spidernat]

I figure John Lannan and Morse will get raises. The Nats will trade them to avoid this.

All the raises are pretty much covered with the money coming off from this year's salary.

[PANatsFan]

Screw Mork Lener

[JCA-CrystalCity]

yes, Randy Johnson was a free agent signing with Arizona

But he came over in 1999.  I think I said 4 or more years years, >$60MM, since 2000. 

[Evolution33]

All the raises are pretty much covered with the money coming off from this year's salary.

Zimmermann and Clippard as well. The Nats will be trading a lot of guys this off-season.

Seriously if Morse does end up with the batting title he has to ask for around $9 million.