Is it time to once and for all end the claim that the Leners are cheap?

[houston-nat]

Post of the Year

Speaking as informal 'Post of the Year' administrator, I would like for people (this means PA too, don't think I didn't notice) to stop using 'Post of the Year' in place of 'QFT' or 'agree'. I create the POTY list based on forum searches for the phrase 'Post of the Year' and every post that's not a genuine honest-to-god POTY nomination is just a waste of my curatorial time.

Thank you.

[blue911]

What the freak is curatorial? Is that some fancy word for pictures?

[houston-nat]

What the freak is curatorial? Is that some fancy word for pictures?

[spidernat]

There's a little problem with just saying, "Go sign Wilson or else you are cheap." 

No one has actually said this. But the Lerners spend meagerly. And that's because they're freaking cheap and are looking to bilk the franchise and its fanbase.

[Gleason2]

I can't argue with this.  The Nats are starting to get to the point where the first home-grown generation of players are cycling off the team.  That will make the public quite cynical about the build from within first strategy.

Which first home-grown generation of players are you referring to as cycling off the team?

[spidernat]

So who is it you guys saying the "Lerners are cheap" want us to blow our wad on? Its such a stupid argument when its obviously been proven wrong if you actually paid attention to the last two years. For God's sake, we dropped 8 million on Yunesky Maya. We just spent 16 million on draft picks. But yea ... Lerners are cheap ... okay.

Maya and the draft picks are a common strawman for the Lerner apologists.

[Kevrock]

Speaking as informal 'Post of the Year' administrator, I would like for people (this means PA too, don't think I didn't notice) to stop using 'Post of the Year' in place of 'QFT' or 'agree'. I create the POTY list based on forum searches for the phrase 'Post of the Year' and every post that's not a genuine honest-to-god POTY nomination is just a waste of my curatorial time.

Thank you.

Post of the year! 

[imref]

Because they have to work out a trade. Why are we trading  for a 32 year old pitcher who has an expensive deal and is, at best, a number 3.

Why are we so desperate to spend money? Frankly, what big name free agent has paid off in the past couple years? On any team?

Carl Crawford,  Jayson Werth, Adrian Beltre, Adam Dunn, Aubry Huff, Cliff Lee, Victor Martinez, Carlos Pena, Rafeal Soriano, Jason Bay, Chone Figgins

All players that went to another team and got huge deals (10+ mil a year). Honestly, on  that list, who here would we really want in DC?

Cliff Lee (wouldn't have signed in DC for any amount of money; took less to work in Philly)
Victor Martinez (We wouldn't have Ramos or Morse)

So who is it you guys saying the "Lerners are cheap" want us to blow our wad on? Its such a stupid argument when its obviously been proven wrong if you actually paid attention to the last two years. For God's sake, we dropped 8 million on Yunesky Maya. We just spent 16 million on draft picks. But yea ... Lerners are cheap ... okay.

I'll buy into LAC when we turn into KC, Pittsburgh or Tampa and start letting young superstars walk or we trade them because we won't open the wallet to re-sign them, not because we haven't overpaid for free agents on the downsides of their careers.  They already extended Zimmerman once, let's see them do it again.

[hammondsnats]

Fact check hoss - the team DID NOT SPEND in the past (2007, 2008, 2009, 2010) and STILL HAS A LOW PAYROLL.  This doesn't mean that anyone here, outside of maybe Hammonds, wants us to just blow money on donks on their way to gluefactory.  Why they won't pick up a proven guy for salary relief is a question that should be answered if said guy is up for grabs.

oh hush up.  of course i want smart spending and i never said spending 150 mil will put you in the playoffs.  but the chances are greater of a trip to the postseason if you have a higher payroll. 

and slateman i can facepalm anyone i want

[hammondsnats]

Speaking as informal 'Post of the Year' administrator, I would like for people (this means PA too, don't think I didn't notice) to stop using 'Post of the Year' in place of 'QFT' or 'agree'. I create the POTY list based on forum searches for the phrase 'Post of the Year' and every post that's not a genuine honest-to-god POTY nomination is just a waste of my curatorial time.

Thank you.

i'm going to say post of the year at least 11 times a day just to piss you off

[hammondsnats]

Lerner believed Monday’s night haul represented ownership’s goals to build the team since they took over. He believes the Nationals now have one of the best farm systems in the game. The night may have been tough for him, but he loved the results.

“I think we’re sticking to the game plan since we’ve got the team,” Lerner said. “We’re going to build the team with the farm system. I think last night, we took it to a whole different level. In my opinion now, we’re probably one of the top five farm systems in baseball. I think that four years ago, we were No. 30. That’s really saying something. To be able to always count on your farm system to help your franchise is what we want, and it’s the only thing we’ll be satisfied with.”

oh god the plan. 

so guesstimate next year's payroll?  $53 million?

[houston-nat]

oh god the plan.  

so guesstimate next year's payroll?  $53 million?

We should start a new thread with a 2012 OD payroll betting pool. Winner gets a prize of some kind, like large amounts of beer or a Roarin Storen avatar/sig combo.

[hammondsnats]

We should start a new thread with a 2012 OD payroll betting pool. Winner gets a prize of some kind, like large amounts of beer or a Roarin Storen avatar/sig combo.

or to assist blue in punching nathan? 

[Evolution33]

We should start a new thread with a 2012 OD payroll betting pool. Winner gets a prize of some kind, like large amounts of beer or a Roarin Storen avatar/sig combo.

$7.56

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Which first home-grown generation of players are you referring to as cycling off the team?

First was Chad, but that was less LAC than him breaking down. I'm referring mostly to RZ, then behind him Storen and Stras. You can count Morse in there if you want.  If we start seeing a series of Marlin like moves of trading guys for prospects when they get expensive, then I think it will rip the guts out of the fan base.  It may be smart to move some of these guys if they are not re-signed, but i don't expect anyone other than the junior GM Association will take kindly to it.

[JCA-CrystalCity]

No one has actually said this.

I kind of read BerkelyNat's post below as saying that.

If they want to contend, they will go out and get someone like Wilson. If not, we'll have a rotation with the likes of Wang in it. The pitching has pissed me off for years. We've never had a legit #1 guy until Strasburg got drafted. They've continually ignored the rotation and chose to instead stock it with AAA guys. We could have a pretty decent rotation next season with Stras, JZ, Wilson, and Lannan as our top 4. We'll still need to find a #5 guy, but that's not a bad start. We'll probably get some bullcrap excuse next season as to why they didn't sign Wilson or someone else and then get told that we are still on course to win in 2021.

[houston-nat]

$7.56

Mike Bacsik should pay all of us $7.56.

[HalfSmokes]

Does Wilson scare anyone else? He's a converted reliever who hasn't been starting long enough to justify the contract that his numbers+a really weak FA class will probably get him 

[houston-nat]

Does Wilson scare anyone else? He's a converted reliever who hasn't been starting long enough to justify the contract that his numbers+a really weak FA class will probably get him 

You must have JCA on ignore.

There's a little problem with just saying, "Go sign Wilson or else you are cheap."  Unless Sabathia becomes a free agent, Wilson is clearly the best pitcher available as a free agent.  I would expect his contract to be more than the Burnett / Lackey / Beckett range ($17MM+, 4 or more years).  Think 4/$70Mm for starters, more likely 5/$90 MM given the market scarcity.  I'm a huge Wilson fan, but he is getting old (31 this November) and has only pitched two years as a starter.  You have to wonder if he's a break down candidate.  It's going to be a heck of an auction for his services, and there is the winner's curse for the team that gets him.  I have pushed for a Wandy claim as a smarter play.  I'd also think that, if Bedard shows he's healthy down the stretch, a contract for Jason Marquis money with a lot of incentives based on innings pitched that takes it up to Ted Lilly money would be a better play than Wilson for 5/$90MM.  There are smart reasons to look in other directions, not just cheap ones.

If we're going to gamble on a good aging starter, I'd prefer Wandy.

[PANatsFan]

Mike Bacsik should pay all of us $7.56.

Mike Bacsik should STFU

[Nathan]

$7.56

The Price is Right rules?  $1.

or to assist blue in punching nathan? 

[Rasta]

Every free agent pitcher carries risk.  Most quality pitchers don't hit free agency until their late 20's to early 30's.  

The Nats are trying to draft as many pitchers as possible so that they don't have to go to free agency.  Personally, I'd take a shot at Wilson depending on his price and Wandy as well if he hits waivers.  Both would slot in well around Stras and JZ.  

If I had my choice I'd sign Wilson and then take a shot at Greinke after next year.  

Can you imagine a rotation of SS, JZ, Greinke & Wilson?  By the beginning of 2013 we would probably have a couple of guys who have earned that fifth spot.  

[JCA-CrystalCity]

Every free agent pitcher carries risk.  Most quality pitchers don't hit free agency until their late 20's to early 30's. 

That's why most of the highest priced ones have been awful signings historically.  Sabathia, maybe Lee, look like good signings.  Lee, let's review 2 years from now.  Mussina was not awful, but look at the 4+ year, $60MM+ signings since 2000.

[PatsNats28]

Speaking as informal 'Post of the Year' administrator, I would like for people (this means PA too, don't think I didn't notice) to stop using 'Post of the Year' in place of 'QFT' or 'agree'. I create the POTY list based on forum searches for the phrase 'Post of the Year' and every post that's not a genuine honest-to-god POTY nomination is just a waste of my curatorial time.

Thank you.

Post of the year

[Ali the Baseball Cat]

Randy Johnson and Curt Schilling were OK...

That's why most of the highest priced ones have been awful signings historically.  Sabathia, maybe Lee, look like good signings.  Lee, let's review 2 years from now.  Mussina was not awful, but look at the 4+ year, $60MM+ signings since 2000.