Author Topic: You can just feel it. This is where.....  (Read 3025 times)

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Offline Ali the Baseball Cat

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Re: You can just feel it. This is where.....
« Reply #175: May 26, 2011, 02:15:29 AM »
I'm a big fan of Livo.  I really like Bernadina and Morse.  RZ is RZ.  I don't share your baseball ennui entirely...there still are individuals on the team who stand out in some manner or another. Even if that manner involves sadomasochism.



 

Further, there really aren't any players, that I at least, feel like I can get behind, root for, enjoy watching, whatever.

Offline cmdterps44

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Re: You can just feel it. This is where.....
« Reply #176: May 26, 2011, 02:50:41 AM »
I'm a big fan of Livo.  I really like Bernadina and Morse.  RZ is RZ.  I don't share your baseball ennui entirely...there still are individuals on the team who stand out in some manner or another. Even if that manner involves sadomasochism.

I agree with this post. I like Livo, RZ, Morse, Espinosa, Ramos, Gorzelanny, Zimmermann... there are some more but these guys I enjoy watching and seeing them progress more than anything. It's heartwrenching though either way.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: You can just feel it. This is where.....
« Reply #177: May 26, 2011, 06:19:30 AM »
Guys that are great to watch and that I really dig: Bernadina, Morse, Espinosa, Desmond, Zimmerman, Zimmermann, Livo, Storen, Burnett and, surprisingly, Cora.  I think some people, myself included, are just tired of us signing bums to bad contracts and watching the team crap the bed.  Werth and LaRoche, right now, are looking like total busts.

Offline Coladar

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Re: You can just feel it. This is where.....
« Reply #178: May 26, 2011, 07:24:43 AM »
Yeah. There are some guys that we can all root for. I'd almost take Livo off that list with whats come out the past few months, between the Feds and him paying for some weird crap. Almost. And in 2005, I never, ever, ever missed going to a game he pitched in person I loved him so much.

Shark, Zimmermann, Ramos... That's pretty much it for me. My point wasn't that there are zero to cheer for. But compare it to years past. The funky dance when we had our backup catcher batting. Willie Harris, Alberto Gonzalez. These are freaking bench guys, and they were loved and fun to watch. We don't even have anyone with a tenth of that. In our starting lineup! That's more my point. Nix, Bixler. Ankiel. Stairs. LaRoche. Werth. Gorzelanny. Marquis, to some extent. Rodriguez. Half our bullpen.

The few remaining guys, Balester and such, are in AAA. I'm not talking about performance at this point, just that rooting for factor. The fan factor. The beloved favorite factor. Guys like Dunn, Willie Harris, etc. Even when they sucked, as Harris often did, he was a big fan favorite. You aren't hearing people going wild when anyone in our lineups come up to bat anymore. Used to be you'd hear it all the time for a ton of different players. This just isn't a likable team, guys with names known across the league, or guys that make a name for themselves. We've got a bunch of career AAAA castoffs who are just ballplayers and not guys that win the fans over. Comprising a roster of people like that really damns the team and hurts them, and is further proof for me Rizzo is clueless. You need guys who can play, but you also need guys who fans can root for. You need that "it" factor this team doesn't have. For some reason, Werth I figured a shoe in for this. And yet he isn't... The fans haven't really even taken to him. When you pay someone that much money and the fans don't embrace the player, that's not good.

You add all that to the performance of this team. A historically bad offensive team, markedly worse than even our worst 100+ loss seasons, and it's just a godawful, unwatchable, uninspired, unenjoyable clusterfreak. But I didn't mean to say there are zero guys we enjoy cheering for. Livo, Shark, Zimmermann, Ramos. Four active players. Desmond and Espinoza are great, but they haven't won the fans over and miss that "it factor" as far as I can tell. Four players, compare that to other years... That's just a huge problem, and that's aside from performance. Considering our record, I might almost go so far as to say that when it comes to watchability, enjoyment and future attendance, it's an even bigger problem right now. Assuming we don't keep going 1-7 every eight games and perform around .500 as we had been, despite hitting .225 as a team.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: You can just feel it. This is where.....
« Reply #179: May 26, 2011, 07:33:23 AM »
Can someonme give us a two sentence summary of that?

Offline Evolution33

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Re: You can just feel it. This is where.....
« Reply #180: May 26, 2011, 07:45:03 AM »
Guys that are great to watch and that I really dig: Bernadina, Morse, Espinosa, Desmond, Zimmerman, Zimmermann, Livo, Storen, Burnett and, surprisingly, Cora.  I think some people, myself included, are just tired of us signing bums to bad contracts and watching the team crap the bed.  Werth and LaRoche, right now, are looking like total busts.

I am surprised myself that I like Cora and Hairston. I remember when Willie Harris would be the last out of the game and come up and swing at three straight balls in the dirt. At least Cora and Hairston put up a fight. I would add Ramos and Clippard to your list of players and that would be mine.

Offline aspenbubba

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Re: You can just feel it. This is where.....
« Reply #181: May 26, 2011, 07:49:48 AM »
. For some reason, Werth I figured a shoe in for this. And yet he isn't... The fans haven't really even taken to him. When you pay someone that much money and the fans don't embrace the player, that's not good.


Perhaps it had to do with his abysmal start until recently. He was supposed to make us forget about Dunn and Willingham. I thought the fans were very generous in not booing him . Can you imagine if he was in NY or just came to Philly from another team with that size contract.?

And remember we lost Stras and Zim and the team still managed to play respectfully until this last road trip.

Offline Evolution33

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Re: You can just feel it. This is where.....
« Reply #182: May 26, 2011, 08:11:19 AM »
Perhaps it had to do with his abysmal start until recently. He was supposed to make us forget about Dunn and Willingham. I thought the fans were very generous in not booing him . Can you imagine if he was in NY or just came to Philly from another team with that size contract.?

And remember we lost Stras and Zim and the team still managed to play respectfully until this last road trip.

People don't boo but they grumble. At least the ones around me. Money makes a player overrated. After this off-season when Heath Bell signs a 3 or 4 year contract worth $10-12 million a year I am positive there will be at least a few articles saying how overrated he is.

Offline aspenbubba

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Re: You can just feel it. This is where.....
« Reply #183: May 26, 2011, 08:21:52 AM »
People don't boo but they grumble. At least the ones around me. Money makes a player overrated. After this off-season when Heath Bell signs a 3 or 4 year contract worth $10-12 million a year I am positive there will be at least a few articles saying how overrated he is.

I understand as I started having feelings that this might have been a "Snyderesque" FA signing. If the team was hitting it might have raised only a few eyebrows.There were several posters on here that countered the excitement of the signing by extrapolating out Werths numbers by subtracting his AB's against the Nats woeful pitching the previous four years.

Offline Evolution33

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Re: You can just feel it. This is where.....
« Reply #184: May 26, 2011, 08:42:47 AM »
I understand as I started having feelings that this might have been a "Snyderesque" FA signing. If the team was hitting it might have raised only a few eyebrows.There were several posters on here that countered the excitement of the signing by extrapolating out Werths numbers by subtracting his AB's against the Nats woeful pitching the previous four years.

Werth has been quietly hot for the last couple weeks. He has raised his OPS up to .790 and has a .359 wOBA on the season. Werth never had a chance to live up to the contract, but I am not sure anyone expected him to even the front office. The full judgment of this contract can only come when it is known if the Nationals use it as an excuse to not sign anymore players or if they just keep on spending.

Offline MarquisDeSade

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Re: You can just feel it. This is where.....
« Reply #185: May 26, 2011, 08:43:25 AM »
I would add Ramos and Clippard to your list of players and that would be mine.

Oops, I thought I included them!  They definitely belong as well.  The thing about Cora is that he, in addition to being a stand-up guy and a great baseball mind, really is a veteran presence that, and I could be mindfacting here, is probably doing a lot more for the clubhouse than Pudge and the other "veterans". 

Offline sportsfan882

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Re: You can just feel it. This is where.....
« Reply #186: May 26, 2011, 09:22:40 AM »
I am surprised myself that I like Cora and Hairston. I remember when Willie Harris would be the last out of the game and come up and swing at three straight balls in the dirt. At least Cora and Hairston put up a fight. I would add Ramos and Clippard to your list of players and that would be mine.
Hairston and Cora are not good players.

Cora .563 OPS and Hairston .669 OPS. I can't believe Hairston had already racked up 129 ABs this season. He will likely get 400+ ABs. What a waste :hang:

Offline The Chief

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Re: You can just feel it. This is where.....
« Reply #187: May 26, 2011, 09:24:14 AM »
Hairston is .292 / .348 / .425 / .772 since the homerun he hit on April 17th.  His numbers for the last week, two weeks, and four weeks are all decent as well (especially for this team).  There's a lot not to like about this team, but it's hard to hate on Hairston for being competent in the role he was hired for.

Offline sportsfan882

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Re: You can just feel it. This is where.....
« Reply #188: May 26, 2011, 09:24:44 AM »
it's just pathetic.

http://content.usatoday.com/sportsdata/baseball/mlb/salaries/team

why does this team constantly have to be in the $50-60 million range?  why the hell can't they go up to 100 like half the league is?

Maybe if we signed more LaRoches and Werths we would have more wins  8)

Offline Evolution33

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Re: You can just feel it. This is where.....
« Reply #189: May 26, 2011, 09:25:58 AM »
Hairston is .292 / .348 / .425 / .772 since the homerun he hit on April 17th.

Mindfacts only please.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: You can just feel it. This is where.....
« Reply #190: May 26, 2011, 09:26:50 AM »
Hairston is .292 / .348 / .425 / .772 since the homerun he hit on April 17th.

The Nats have a killer bench that can be traded at the deadline once the regulars heal. We knew this from Spring Training.

Offline sportsfan882

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Re: You can just feel it. This is where.....
« Reply #191: May 26, 2011, 09:27:44 AM »
Hairston is .292 / .348 / .425 / .772 since the homerun he hit on April 17th.
Not a starter caliber player. Guys like him and Cora were supposed to be bench guys which I'm fine with, not getting starts every day.

This is why I always get pissed when the Nats sign these guys in the offseason. They seem like minimal signings at the time but these guys that are Minor League fodder or bench guys end up getting 400+ ABs on the Major League roster. It really sucks.

Offline sportsfan882

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Re: You can just feel it. This is where.....
« Reply #192: May 26, 2011, 09:29:00 AM »
The Nats have a killer bench that can be traded at the deadline once the regulars heal. We knew this from Spring Training.
No one is going to give up anything for any of our bench guys. We really have no tradeable assets at the deadline for the first time in years. No one wants our crappy bench guys or Jason Marquis who is pitching worse and worse by the day.

Offline Evolution33

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Re: You can just feel it. This is where.....
« Reply #193: May 26, 2011, 09:29:49 AM »
Not a starter caliber player. Guys like him and Cora were supposed to be bench guys which I'm fine with, not getting starts every day.

This is why I always get pissed when the Nats sign these guys in the offseason. They seem like minimal signings at the time but these guys that are Minor League fodder or bench guys end up getting 400+ ABs on the Major League roster. It really sucks.

So, you're saying the Nats hurt Ryan Zimmerman on purpose?

Offline The Chief

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Re: You can just feel it. This is where.....
« Reply #194: May 26, 2011, 09:31:19 AM »
It isn't their fault that Zim and LaRoche are hurt or that the rest of the "real" starters have been awful.  Why you would bother to complain about a bench player who is doing a respectable job filling in is beyond me.

I always get pissed

x 50,092? ;)


Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: You can just feel it. This is where.....
« Reply #195: May 26, 2011, 09:32:03 AM »
No one is going to give up anything for any of our bench guys. We really have no tradeable assets at the deadline for the first time in years. No one wants our crappy bench guys or Jason Marquis who is pitching worse and worse by the day.

we may get something for them, but if corey brown is the return for willingham, I doubt Nix would get us more than a high A arm

Offline sportsfan882

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Re: You can just feel it. This is where.....
« Reply #196: May 26, 2011, 09:36:09 AM »
So, you're saying the Nats hurt Ryan Zimmerman on purpose?
We need better replacements for Ryan Zimmerman than Jerry freaking Hairston and Alex Cora. :? These are not good players.

we may get something for them, but if corey brown is the return for willingham, I doubt Nix would get us more than a high A arm
Nix might fetch a low level C grade prospect and that's it. Might as well just keep him for the rest of the year and consider bringing him back next year to be a bench power bat.
It isn't their fault that Zim and LaRoche are hurt or that the rest of the "real" starters have been awful.  Why you would bother to complain about a bench player who is doing a respectable job filling in is beyond me.

x 50,092? ;)


They are just part of the problem, just part of the reason we can't score runs. Hairston has been a huge FAIL with guys on third base recently.

Offline The Chief

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Re: You can just feel it. This is where.....
« Reply #197: May 26, 2011, 09:42:11 AM »
He's had two PAs with a man on third in the last week and he singled in one of them :shrug:

This whole team is awful with RISP because this whole team is awful, period.  Even if Hairston were truly terrible, I wouldn't see the use in directing so much ire specifically at him when most of our starting lineup is equally bad (or worse).

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: You can just feel it. This is where.....
« Reply #198: May 26, 2011, 09:42:19 AM »
we may get something for them, but if corey brown is the return for willingham, I doubt Nix would get us more than a high A arm

Riggleman confirmed on the radio yesterday that Rodriguez was the centerpiece of the trade.

Offline blue911

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Re: You can just feel it. This is where.....
« Reply #199: May 26, 2011, 09:44:59 AM »
The Nats have a killer bench that can be traded at the deadline once the regulars heal. We knew this from Spring Training.

I say we trade Stairs now and hope we can get by without him.