Author Topic: Negro Leagues  (Read 313 times)

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Offline natstime

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Negro Leagues
« Topic Start: May 13, 2011, 12:34:34 PM »
I am a junior in high school and for my final in AP US history I am doing a project on the negro leagues.  I need to keep this somewhat history related, so I thought I was going to show how baseball represented the different periods of African American History in the United states.  For example: Negro Leagues represent "separate but equal." 

I was just wondering if anyone had any suggestions or interesting ideas or directions I could take this project.

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: Negro Leagues
« Reply #1: May 13, 2011, 12:51:17 PM »
Perhaps the rationale behind the selection of Jackie Robinson as the first black player in the Majors?  There is some great information out there about the Negro Leagues and a lof of folks who put a lot more time into it than I have suggest that Robinson wasn't the best ballplayer in the Negor Leagues but he was selected because the Dodgers felt he could best handle the scrutiny he was about to face.

Another project I always wanted to research and try my hand at but can never find the time it would require to do it justice is to try to justify why modern record holders are more significant than the players they surpassed because players like Ruth, Gherig, Cobb, etc. never had to face some of the best, most talented ball players in America since blacks weren't allowed to play MLB. 

The biggest issue you'll face is that the statistics that were kept from the Negro Leagues are often either incomplete or inflated by barnstorming numbers.  If you can get your parents to do it, see if they'll take you to the Baseball HoF and do some research there.  There's a lot of great Negro Leagues information that can be had - plus, you get to go to Cooperstown; how cool woudl that be?

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Negro Leagues
« Reply #2: May 13, 2011, 12:52:31 PM »
There is some great information out there about the Negro Leagues and a lof of folks who put a lot more time into it than I have suggest that Robinson wasn't the best ballplayer in the Negor Leagues but he was selected because the Dodgers felt he could best handle the scrutiny he was about

I've read that as well.

Maybe it's some guys being bitter over not getting a shot, but a lot of the former players said Jackie was a good player... but no where near the best player the league had, at the time.

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: Negro Leagues
« Reply #3: May 13, 2011, 12:54:17 PM »
I've read that as well.

Maybe it's some guys being bitter over not getting a shot, but a lot of the former players said Jackie was a good player... but no where near the best player the league had, at the time.

There's no doubt Jackie was a great player - just look at what he did when he made it to the Majors.

But my favorite guy was better.  And he played a much more difficult position.  :mg:

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Negro Leagues
« Reply #4: May 13, 2011, 12:55:19 PM »
There's no doubt Jackie was a great player - just look at what he did when he made it to the Majors.

But my favorite guy was better.  And he played a much more difficult position.  :mg:

I'll take a stab in the dark and say Josh Gibson.

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: Negro Leagues
« Reply #5: May 13, 2011, 12:56:10 PM »
I'll take a stab in the dark and say Josh Gibson.

:clap:

Best.  Catcher.  Ever.

Offline mitlen

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Re: Negro Leagues
« Reply #6: May 13, 2011, 12:59:23 PM »
...  suggest that Robinson wasn't the best ballplayer in the Negor Leagues but he was selected because the Dodgers felt he could best handle the scrutiny he was about to face  ....

Interesting point because it is similar to what was said of Rosa Parks and the Montgomery bus boycott.     Many AA women (and men) didn't give up their seats or move before her but she fit the bill to carry the battle onward.    They were the right people at the right time to challenge the 'system'.    

Offline JMUalumni

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Re: Negro Leagues
« Reply #7: May 13, 2011, 01:43:48 PM »
You might want to look into the "all-star" exhibition games that pitted the Negro League stars vs. the MLB stars.  Also two other topics involving the negro leagues that may be pertinent are attendance demographics at Negro League games and ownership of Negro League teams as compared to MLB.

Offline natstime

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Re: Negro Leagues
« Reply #8: May 13, 2011, 01:45:50 PM »
thanks guys i appreciate it

Offline CALSGR8

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Re: Negro Leagues
« Reply #9: May 13, 2011, 10:26:10 PM »
Actually there was a black player in baseball's early years until Landis banned them.  Then there were black players who tried to claim they were of Cuban or Puerto rican decent so they could play!  A loophole! 

Also many Negroleaguers played in Latin countries during the winter.  The Latin countries weren't nearly as predjudiced as Americans were and were paid A LOT MORE THERE TOO.

Oh and did you know that one of the pitchers in the Negro leagues was FEMALE!

lots of historic perspectives.

Offline ronnynat

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Re: Negro Leagues
« Reply #10: May 13, 2011, 10:45:34 PM »
Actually there was a black player in baseball's early years until Landis banned them.  Then there were black players who tried to claim they were of Cuban or Puerto rican decent so they could play!  A loophole! 

Also many Negroleaguers played in Latin countries during the winter.  The Latin countries weren't nearly as predjudiced as Americans were and were paid A LOT MORE THERE TOO.

Oh and did you know that one of the pitchers in the Negro leagues was FEMALE!

lots of historic perspectives.


I know it's history, but this stuff still makes me as sick as it did when I first heard about it. Guys had to find a loophole to play a game with other human beings. Just awful.

Offline CALSGR8

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Re: Negro Leagues
« Reply #11: May 14, 2011, 12:20:06 AM »
I agree.   I had a friend who was really into Negro League history.  Went to a Negro league night at the Pfitz awhile back.   Met Buck O'Neil and Wilmer Fields.  Forget the game.  I talked to them all night.  Read both their autobiographies.   Great guys may they rest in peace.

Offline hammondsnats

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Re: Negro Leagues
« Reply #12: May 14, 2011, 01:51:43 AM »
I know it's history, but this stuff still makes me as sick as it did when I first heard about it. Guys had to find a loophole to play a game with other human beings. Just awful.

Couldn't agree more ronny.

Online blue911

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Re: Negro Leagues
« Reply #13: May 14, 2011, 06:55:09 AM »
Actually there was a black player in baseball's early years until Landis banned them.  Then there were black players who tried to claim they were of Cuban or Puerto rican decent so they could play!  A loophole! 

Also many Negroleaguers played in Latin countries during the winter.  The Latin countries weren't nearly as predjudiced as Americans were and were paid A LOT MORE THERE TOO.

Oh and did you know that one of the pitchers in the Negro leagues was FEMALE!

lots of historic perspectives.


Moses Fleetwood Walker. The ban went into effect long before Landis became commish.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Negro Leagues
« Reply #14: May 14, 2011, 08:46:32 AM »
I know it's history, but this stuff still makes me as sick as it did when I first heard about it. Guys had to find a loophole to play a game with other human beings. Just awful.

I have a neighbor who is over 90 and he was born downtown. Do you know why the old DC theaters had 2 screens? Why does the Uptown have a floor level and a balcony? It's vile, and I never even realized it until he pointed it out.

Offline mitlen

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Re: Negro Leagues
« Reply #15: May 14, 2011, 09:54:46 AM »
I have a neighbor who is over 90 and he was born downtown. Do you know why the old DC theaters had 2 screens? Why does the Uptown have a floor level and a balcony? It's vile, and I never even realized it until he pointed it out.

I'm not quite 90 :) but I remember those days.   A co-worker of mine (AA) and I were looking at my HS yearbooks online.   We had a lot of diversity in the old steel mill towns ... Asian, white, black, Latin, etc.   He looked at me with surprise and said, "You went to school with black kids?  I never went to school with a white kid 'til the 8th grade."    We were both kind of shocked by that.

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: Negro Leagues
« Reply #16: May 14, 2011, 10:22:53 AM »
I also work with a woman who's father was a Negro League player.  I can ask if you can interview her for your project if you'd like. 

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Negro Leagues
« Reply #17: May 14, 2011, 10:30:16 AM »
I'm not quite 90 :) but I remember those days.   A co-worker of mine (AA) and I were looking at my HS yearbooks online.   We had a lot of diversity in the old steel mill towns ... Asian, white, black, Latin, etc.   He looked at me with surprise and said, "You went to school with black kids?  I never went to school with a white kid 'til the 8th grade."    We were both kind of shocked by that.

Finding someone who grew up downtown and is over a certain age is tougher.

Offline CALSGR8

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Re: Negro Leagues
« Reply #18: May 14, 2011, 11:08:26 AM »
Moses Fleetwood Walker. The ban went into effect long before Landis became commish.

That's him!  Thanks Blue.  Hmm.  Then maybe the commish that eventually banned him was different.   Or maybe he played until Landis banned him.  Have to look it up.

I think the fact that Latin countries like the Dominican etc. Were more accepting and paid them more was a total shock to me.  I mean we're supposed to me the more "advanced " country!   I read about that in Wilmer Fields' book.

Offline mitlen

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Re: Negro Leagues
« Reply #19: May 14, 2011, 11:22:36 AM »
Finding someone who grew up downtown and is over a certain age is tougher.

Tough is where you live.   The adage "Where you stand depends on where you sit."    I respect your opinion but to me "tough" was living in Mississippi or Alabama.  IMHO though, as a white guy "of a certain age", it ain't my place to speculate.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Negro Leagues
« Reply #20: May 14, 2011, 12:23:21 PM »
Tough is where you live.   The adage "Where you stand depends on where you sit."    I respect your opinion but to me "tough" was living in Mississippi or Alabama.  IMHO though, as a white guy "of a certain age", it ain't my place to speculate.

You ENTIRELY misunderstood my post. Up until recently, this area was full of transient families, everyone came and went often. Finding someone who lived in DC during that time is what I said was tough.

Offline mitlen

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Re: Negro Leagues
« Reply #21: May 14, 2011, 12:25:11 PM »
You ENTIRELY misunderstood my post. Up until recently, this area was full of transient families, everyone came and went often. Finding someone who lived in DC during that time is what I said was tough.

You're right.   I did.   I didn't mean any harm and wasn't trying to have a pissing contest :)   

Offline spidernat

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Re: Negro Leagues
« Reply #22: May 14, 2011, 12:52:55 PM »
I know it's history, but this stuff still makes me as sick as it did when I first heard about it. Guys had to find a loophole to play a game with other human beings. Just awful.


Some had to attach EZ to their name to disguise themselves.  :lol:

Offline soxfan59

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Re: Negro Leagues
« Reply #23: May 23, 2011, 04:17:22 PM »
Moses Fleetwood Walker. The ban went into effect long before Landis became commish.


for those who even care about such things, I have theorized that there is a connection between the exclusion of Moses F. Walker and the curse on the Chicago Cubs:

See: http://www.wnff.net/index.php?topic=7010.msg179135#msg179135