Author Topic: Space. The Final Frontier.  (Read 11362 times)

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Offline Nathan

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Space. The Final Frontier.
« Topic Start: February 24, 2011, 08:51:35 PM »
I didn't know if we should have a dedicated space thread or just use the Shuttle one, but I made one.  Yeah, I like space, big whoop, wanna fight about it?  :lol:

I was reading about the New Horizons mission that Colodar mentioned, and came across this awesome gif:



It's a volcano erupting on Io caught by the New Horizons craft.  Wow.

Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: Space. The Final Frontier.
« Reply #1: February 24, 2011, 08:56:33 PM »


Just getting it out of the way.  I know you were all thinking it.

Offline cmdterps44

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Re: Space. The Final Frontier.
« Reply #2: February 24, 2011, 08:56:58 PM »
Here's a link to that other site. Its got a bunch of cool information to all of this stuff. Just linking for curiosity sakes.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=227775

Offline cmdterps44

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Re: Space. The Final Frontier.
« Reply #3: February 24, 2011, 08:58:05 PM »
Pale Blue Dot is probably the most surreal thing ever



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_Blue_Dot

Awesome youtube video with Sagan and Earth.

Offline Nathan

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Re: Space. The Final Frontier.
« Reply #4: February 24, 2011, 08:58:46 PM »
(Image removed from quote.)

Just getting it out of the way.  I know you were all thinking it.
Well, that was just a LITTLE bit of the inspiration for the name of the thread ;)

Offline Nathan

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Re: Space. The Final Frontier.
« Reply #5: February 24, 2011, 09:25:47 PM »
Pale Blue Dot is probably the most surreal thing ever

(Image removed from quote.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_Blue_Dot

Awesome youtube video with Sagan and Earth.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pfwY2TNehw

Quote
From this distant vantage point, the Earth might not seem of particular interest. But for us, it's different. Look again at that dot. That's here, that's home, that's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.
Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.
The Earth is the only world known so far to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment the Earth is where we make our stand.
It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.

Offline CALSGR8

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Re: Space. The Final Frontier.
« Reply #6: February 24, 2011, 09:34:43 PM »
Awesome!   Actually Wynn I hear those words that titled this Thread; I think KIRK.  NOT PICARD!

Offline Nathan

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Re: Space. The Final Frontier.
« Reply #7: February 24, 2011, 09:43:05 PM »
Boooooooooooo!

(No, not really, I like TOS too, but I grew up on TNG ;) )

Offline CALSGR8

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Re: Space. The Final Frontier.
« Reply #8: February 24, 2011, 09:50:18 PM »
Yeah well I guess I'm aging myself again!  My brother and cousin and I would act out TOS. 

Offline imref

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Re: Space. The Final Frontier.
« Reply #9: February 24, 2011, 10:01:57 PM »
I didn't know if we should have a dedicated space thread or just use the Shuttle one, but I made one.  Yeah, I like space, big whoop, wanna fight about it?  :lol:

I was reading about the New Horizons mission that Colodar mentioned, and came across this awesome gif:

(Image removed from quote.)

It's a volcano erupting on Io caught by the New Horizons craft.  Wow.


i'm reminded of "ALL THESE WORLDS ARE YOURS EXCEPT EUROPA. ATTEMPT NO LANDINGS THERE."

Offline Nathan

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Re: Space. The Final Frontier.
« Reply #10: February 24, 2011, 10:59:14 PM »
Here's a link to that other site. Its got a bunch of cool information to all of this stuff. Just linking for curiosity sakes.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=227775
:rofl:  I see you post in more than one online discussion forum ;)

Offline Coladar

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Re: Space. The Final Frontier.
« Reply #11: February 25, 2011, 03:04:39 AM »
I'll move my rants to this thread since it's more appropriate. I just totally happened to come across this article while reading about Libya an hour ago, and it highlights what I was talking about while having nothing to do with the space program, mostly.
http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/02/24/6126146-will-our-sputnik-moment-fizzle-out

This nation, the morons in power, have no respect or cares about science. NASA's total dismissal proved that, but it continues in cutting costs to science programs with benefits that people thinking they don't get anything out of space actually do see, on earth. Science is how humanity progresses. In this era, we must focus on science given China's rise and understanding that science is where it's at. Yet we continue to spend trillions on wars. The argument goes this stuff doesn't result in anything for American's, yet giving trillions to Iraq and Afghanistan does? We are going to be in a bad way if this continues... There's always talk about how US kids lag behind in math and science, and yet why would they want to pursue careers there when funding is cut to these programs, and a total deemphasis is being put on them?

It's sad to see humanity starting to stall. It's even sadder that it seems the US is the only country that's capable/interested in doing human spaceflight. Russia hasn't progressed, and China is stalled out, taking ridiculous amounts of time between their human spaceflights. But in unmanned, scientific craft, we are totally getting outdone by the ESA, Europe, JAXA, Japan, even India. China is slowly progressing, and Russia... Well, Russia is now the only game in town for human spaceflight, but given the country's status, they quit scientific unmanned craft pretty much completely. India has really made some leaps in exploring the moon, they've sent a couple probes there that gave unprecedented data. Just today the ESA tested a new craft to explore and map Mercury. Europe has the LHC doing groundbreaking work, and here we find out all particle accelerators may be shut down?

It's sad, because the Mars Rovers proved the average Joe can really get behind and be for unmanned space/science probes. But then again, the greatest mission of the past 25 years in my opinion, Huygens, which was carried with Cassini and descended into Saturn's moon Titan, was nearly ignored. Titan is our best bet at exploring how life may develop, and never mind that, we landed a probe on something so far away, with an atmosphere. And Phoenix, the lander after the rovers, that simply drilled into the ground for ice samples, but was stationary, didn't get much if any attention at all. The next rover, Curiousity, is sort of moth balled and way over budget, and way delayed. At this point, even though it's still scheduled to launch in 2012, with these budget cuts, who knows. Hopefully since they've already spent a couple billion, it's too late for them to try to cut it. If people though Spirit and Opportunity were incredible, Curiousity is going to be them times a hundred. That is one monster powered rover.   

New Horizons, which is just freaking awesome, 99% probably have never heard of, as the other thread indicated. Like I said, it was canceled due to funding nearly 15 years ago, and it took a huge fight to get it back and launched. We had a limited window, as Pluto moves further away from the Sun and gets colder, meaning what limited atmosphere it may have goes poof. That was our only shot for 150ish years, and we nearly lost it due to funding. Mind you, these are things that cost only around a billion or so. The data we can get from them is revolutionary, and they cost a pittance in comparison with the US budget. 

Offline Nathan

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Re: Space. The Final Frontier.
« Reply #12: February 25, 2011, 03:16:47 AM »
Not to turn this into a politics thread, but how much is the defense budget?

Offline Coladar

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Re: Space. The Final Frontier.
« Reply #13: February 25, 2011, 03:24:13 AM »
Not to turn this into a politics thread, but how much is the defense budget?




DoD budget in 2010: $664 Billion
NASA budget in 2010: $18.7 Billion
National Science Foundation budget in 2010: $7 Billion

Gogo science. Plus another $52 Billion to the State Department and international aid/funding. So about $716 billion outside our shores, and $25 billion to science. I bet the DoD gets more money for black satellites for spying, satellite defense etc. than NASA gets for scientific/non-human spaceflight.

Oh, and by the by, we spend ten times, 10x, NASA's budget on INTEREST on the national debt in 2010. $164 billion in interest on the national debt in 2010. Just sad.

Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: Space. The Final Frontier.
« Reply #14: February 25, 2011, 03:25:22 AM »
Well, that was just a LITTLE bit of the inspiration for the name of the thread ;)
8)  Though you should have probably included the stardate: -311849.9018581938

Offline Coladar

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Re: Space. The Final Frontier.
« Reply #15: February 25, 2011, 03:29:49 AM »
Here's a list of the total 2010 budget, in case one is interested in the numbers instead of a pie chart:

Mandatory spending: $2.009 trillion (-20.1%)

$695 billion (+4.9%) – Social Security
$571 billion (−15.2%) – Other mandatory programs
$453 billion (+6.6%) – Medicare
$290 billion (+12.0%) – Medicaid
$164 billion (+18.0%) – Interest on National Debt
$11 billion (+275%) – Potential disaster costs
$0 billion (−100%) – Troubled Asset Relief Program (TARP)
$0 billion (−100%) – Financial stabilization efforts


US receipt and expenditure estimates for fiscal year 2010.

Discretionary spending: $1.368 trillion (+13.1%)
$663.7 billion (+12.7%) – Department of Defense (including Overseas Contingency Operations)
$78.7 billion (−1.7%) – Department of Health and Human Services
$72.5 billion (+2.8%) – Department of Transportation
$52.5 billion (+10.3%) – Department of Veterans Affairs
$51.7 billion (+40.9%) – Department of State and Other International Programs
$47.5 billion (+18.5%) – Department of Housing and Urban Development
$46.7 billion (+12.8%) – Department of Education
$42.7 billion (+1.2%) – Department of Homeland Security
$26.3 billion (−0.4%) – Department of Energy
$26.0 billion (+8.8%) – Department of Agriculture
$23.9 billion (−6.3%) – Department of Justice
$18.7 billion (+5.1%) – National Aeronautics and Space Administration
$13.8 billion (+48.4%) – Department of Commerce
$13.3 billion (+4.7%) – Department of Labor
$13.3 billion (+4.7%) – Department of the Treasury
$12.0 billion (+6.2%) – Department of the Interior
$10.5 billion (+34.6%) – Environmental Protection Agency
$9.7 billion (+10.2%) – Social Security Administration
$7.0 billion (+1.4%) – National Science Foundation
$5.1 billion (−3.8%) – Corps of Engineers
$5.0 billion (+100%) – National Infrastructure Bank
$1.1 billion (+22.2%) – Corporation for National and Community Service
$0.7 billion (0.0%) – Small Business Administration
$0.6 billion (−14.3%) – General Services Administration
$19.8 billion (+3.7%) – Other Agencies
$105 billion – Other

Offline Coladar

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Re: Space. The Final Frontier.
« Reply #16: February 25, 2011, 03:33:26 AM »
8)  Though you should have probably included the stardate: -311849.9018581938


More like stardate: -~

I don't think we are going to have our first warp flight in 2063 now. At this point, we'll be lucky if the US has sent anyone back into space by then, non-commercial spacecraft at least. I wouldn't be shocked if we aren't already past the year the Star Trek universe had for the first humans on Mars. If anyone wants to be an uber nerd, feel free to look it up.


Offline Nathan

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Re: Space. The Final Frontier.
« Reply #17: February 25, 2011, 04:09:52 AM »
Well the colony is in 2103, but the early missions are around the 2030's, like Ares IV in 2032.


Offline The Chief

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Re: Space. The Final Frontier.
« Reply #18: February 25, 2011, 10:03:48 AM »
(Image removed from quote.)

DoD budget in 2010: $664 Billion
NASA budget in 2010: $18.7 Billion
National Science Foundation budget in 2010: $7 Billion

Gogo science. Plus another $52 Billion to the State Department and international aid/funding. So about $716 billion outside our shores, and $25 billion to science. I bet the DoD gets more money for black satellites for spying, satellite defense etc. than NASA gets for scientific/non-human spaceflight.

Oh, and by the by, we spend ten times, 10x, NASA's budget on INTEREST on the national debt in 2010. $164 billion in interest on the national debt in 2010. Just sad.


Oh come now, you're being naive if you don't think a lot of DoD spending doesn't advance the sciences.  I'm not saying NASA and non-military sciences shouldn't get more funding, but to paint it the way you did is willfully ignorant.

Now let's get this thread back on topic.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Space. The Final Frontier.
« Reply #19: February 25, 2011, 10:26:34 AM »
Oh come now, you're being naive if you don't think a lot of DoD spending doesn't advance the sciences.  I'm not saying NASA and non-military sciences shouldn't get more funding, but to paint it the way you did is willfully ignorant.

Now let's get this thread back on topic.

Yeah, the Air Force even has a space program. Gamma ray bursts were discovered by a satellite used to search for atomic bomb testing, and were classified at first!

Offline Coladar

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Re: Space. The Final Frontier.
« Reply #20: February 25, 2011, 10:28:25 AM »
Oh come now, you're being naive if you don't think a lot of DoD spending doesn't advance the sciences.  I'm not saying NASA and non-military sciences shouldn't get more funding, but to paint it the way you did is willfully ignorant.

Now let's get this thread back on topic.

As I brought up, they are funding black satellites for spying. As far as innovation goes? We don't see crap from the DoD for space. Certainly they have their own science projects as any military must, but that crap isn't going to filter down to being technology for the general public. The Navy is spa ding billions on an energy cannon that is in advanced testing stages. Maybe 1-20 of these projects have real use appllications. The rest are strictly military in gear, and can questionably be seen as ever having any form of it be used in non-military purposes. And further, this is talking DoD R&D funding, which is going to be a pittance compared with the full budget.

Looked it up, $20 billion in DoD R&D. Consider spy satellites taking up at least 25%. next gen ships/planes/tanks/weapons another 60%+... All of my estimates might be moot if they are still doing Star Wars and sinking billions in that. Bottom line, the tech innovations for humanity have come from NASA and the NSF since the 90s. We are fighting wars wit guys using sticks, so we aren't exactly fighting tooth and nail with the USSR for technological superiority. I just can't buy the argument the DoD is making all of this ok. Not when we lose human space flight. Not when we have basically lost marquee science probes, launching once a decade now instead of 2-4. When our particle accelerators are at risk of being shut down. All of them. There is nothing there DoD can take up the slack on, or would want to. They have $20 billion, and as comparatively small as that is with what they need to do with it, that's a dog not in this fight. 

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Space. The Final Frontier.
« Reply #21: February 25, 2011, 11:15:15 AM »
I bet the DoD gets more money for black satellites for spying, satellite defense etc. than NASA gets for scientific/non-human spaceflight.

Is that a bad thing?

I'd rather have an ounce of prevention, so to speak.

I'll catch flack for it... but anything they have to do to keep ME and MY Family safe, is ok by me.

Speaking of space... why did they decide to take Pluto off the planet list? What did it do to piss off the other planets enough that they asked it to be removed from their friends list?

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Space. The Final Frontier.
« Reply #22: February 25, 2011, 11:21:40 AM »
Obama said we should care about the kid who wins the science fair just as much as the winner or the super bowl (paraphrase).

what he meant was we should care about the science fair winner provided they did a project on a new military invention

Re: Space. The Final Frontier.
« Reply #23: February 25, 2011, 11:30:19 AM »

Me in 2008 touring Kennedy Space Center in Florida.


And again in 2010.

Offline UMDNats

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Re: Space. The Final Frontier.
« Reply #24: February 25, 2011, 11:35:29 AM »
Yea when I went to FLA last spring my dad and I went around the kennedy space center too. some pretty cool stuff there.