Author Topic: Harper #3 Overall Prospect  (Read 3536 times)

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Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Harper #3 Overall Prospect
« Reply #75: January 27, 2011, 05:32:54 PM »
I don't remember any of them getting a label as potentially the best anything of all time though.  That's why at this point (especially with the AFL performance) I do consider Harper a can't-miss prospect.


here's weiters

Quote
How about this: after looking at the performance, talking to the scouts, and seeing what our numbers people were able to uncover over the offseason, Matt Wieters is the best prospect in baseball, the best player on the Orioles right now, and quite possibly the best catcher in the game. And he's yet to play an inning in the big leagues.


http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=8453

I'm too lazy to look up the rest

Offline Potomac Cannons

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Re: Harper #3 Overall Prospect
« Reply #76: January 27, 2011, 05:55:20 PM »
Well, Wieters got voted 7th best defensive catcher by the Fielding Bible in his first full year.  His half season wOBA (.330) and OPS (.753) looked good but this year he clearly struggled early.  Not the best catcher in the game but pretty good overall.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Harper #3 Overall Prospect
« Reply #77: January 27, 2011, 05:57:43 PM »
still overhyped considering Goldstein (a very good writer) was putting him in the league of Mauer and McCann

Offline Potomac Cannons

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Re: Harper #3 Overall Prospect
« Reply #78: January 27, 2011, 06:01:00 PM »
still overhyped considering Goldstein (a very good writer) was putting him in the league of Mauer and McCann

I'm thinking his defense is going to end up better than them (maybe only on par with Mauer) but the bat has some work to do.

Offline mimontero88

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Re: Harper #3 Overall Prospect
« Reply #79: January 27, 2011, 06:08:12 PM »
here's weiters

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=8453

I'm too lazy to look up the rest

Huge difference between the best catcher in the game and the best hitting prospect of ALL-TIME.  Also, there really aren't too many guys catching in the majors right now that excel at both offense and defense so the fact that Wieters has very good potential in both areas could lead someone to make that speculation.  I would certainly not begrudge anyone the argument that Buster Posey (who plays very good offense and defense) could already be the best catcher in baseball right now (though I would still say Mauer).  But he is nowhere close to establishing himself as the best of all-time yet.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Harper #3 Overall Prospect
« Reply #80: January 27, 2011, 06:16:50 PM »
that quote was from before he was in the majors, so posey hype isn't a comp. Has anyone really called Harper the best hitting Prospect of All time (by anyone I mean Goldstein, Mayo, Law, not random bloggers)?

Offline mimontero88

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Re: Harper #3 Overall Prospect
« Reply #81: January 27, 2011, 06:22:57 PM »
that quote was from before he was in the majors, so posey hype isn't a comp. Has anyone really called Harper the best hitting Prospect of All time (by anyone I mean Goldstein, Mayo, Law, not random bloggers)?
I'm not going to bother even trying to dig up the various articles where I have heard scouts who had watched him making that speculation but I'll go ahead and give you a link to the one article I did dig up with ease.

http://www.masnsports.com/byron_kerr/2011/01/nats-top-prospects-no-1-bryce-harper.html

Byron Kerr interviewed Aaron Fitt from Baseball America on all of the Nats Top 10 prospects.  This is what he had to say about Harper.

Quote
"We kind of regard him as the most hyped, certainly, and maybe the best amateur hitting prospect ever," Fitt said. "That was a year after the Nationals got the most hyped and maybe the best pitching prospect in the draft ever in (Stephen) Strasburg.

"It is ridiculous to have back-to-back years to get that kind of player. In each case, it is a guy with almost once-in-a-generation talent entering your system. Harper is special, he really is. It is almost impossible to overstate how much potential this guy has."

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Harper #3 Overall Prospect
« Reply #82: January 27, 2011, 06:24:22 PM »
The two sentences don't mesh there, is he the best ever or almost once-in-a-generation?

Offline mimontero88

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Re: Harper #3 Overall Prospect
« Reply #83: January 27, 2011, 06:25:36 PM »
that quote was from before he was in the majors, so posey hype isn't a comp. Has anyone really called Harper the best hitting Prospect of All time (by anyone I mean Goldstein, Mayo, Law, not random bloggers)?
I used the Posey comparison because he was being looked at the same way as Wieters was at the times both were getting ready for the bigs.

Offline mimontero88

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Re: Harper #3 Overall Prospect
« Reply #84: January 27, 2011, 06:26:21 PM »
The two sentences don't mesh there, is he the best ever or almost once-in-a-generation?
That's a little too nit-picky.

Offline daveb32

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Re: Harper #3 Overall Prospect
« Reply #85: January 27, 2011, 06:44:55 PM »
Can anyone who's an ESPN insider post Keith Law's top 100 prospect list?

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Harper #3 Overall Prospect
« Reply #86: January 27, 2011, 06:50:46 PM »
That's a little too nit-picky.

not really, you say the hype different than Weiters because people only call him the best catcher in baseball (before he's every played in the majors), I say the hype is the same, even the source you cited placed him as almost-once in a generation- by definition that isn't the best hitter ever

Offline mimontero88

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Re: Harper #3 Overall Prospect
« Reply #87: January 27, 2011, 06:58:46 PM »
not really, you say the hype different than Weiters because people only call him the best catcher in baseball (before he's every played in the majors), I say the hype is the same, even the source you cited placed him as almost-once in a generation- by definition that isn't the best hitter ever
Which is why it is nit-picky.  He also said he was "maybe the best amateur hitting prospect ever."  Then in the next paragraph he used the phrase "almost once-in-a-generation talent" which doesn't seem to be referring to him specifically as a hitter.  He also used phrases that make Bryce Harper sound a bit decent such as, "It is almost impossible to overstate how much potential this guy has."  Also, if your biggest criticism of Bryce Harper is that the scout who said he could be the best hitting prospect ever also said that he was merely "almost a once-in-a-generation talent" that kinda makes Harper seem good.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Harper #3 Overall Prospect
« Reply #88: January 27, 2011, 07:27:13 PM »
I have no criticisms of Harper, I just think the hype machine latches onto certain prospects and blow expectations completely out of proportion.

Offline mimontero88

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Re: Harper #3 Overall Prospect
« Reply #89: January 27, 2011, 07:37:33 PM »
I have no criticisms of Harper, I just think the hype machine latches onto certain prospects and blow expectations completely out of proportion.
I can see that.  I mean no one should be considered the GOAT until they prove it in the majors.  I'm just saying that Harper is a beast.  Based on what he did in college (mostly with a wooden bat) and his overwhelmingly successful stint in the AFL I would say that as of now, he is 100% living up to the hype.  The same thing could have been said about Strasburg last year who was the #1 cure for erectile dysfunction among baseball scouts.  The rest is history.

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Harper #3 Overall Prospect
« Reply #90: January 27, 2011, 08:07:30 PM »
Hot Stove had an Gammons interview with Harper tonight. I'm not sure if this interview has been shown in its entirety before. But Harper seems like a good dude, albeit intense player. Great combination.

I think his "character issues" are way overblown.

Offline DPMOmaha

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Re: Harper #3 Overall Prospect
« Reply #91: January 27, 2011, 08:10:20 PM »
albeit intense player. Great combination. 
Agreed.  We need more of these on our team.

Offline mimontero88

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Re: Harper #3 Overall Prospect
« Reply #92: January 27, 2011, 09:08:41 PM »
I think his "character issues" are way overblown.
I like how he has character issues because he acts like an 18-year-old kid.  How old is he again?

Offline d_mc_nabb

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Re: Harper #3 Overall Prospect
« Reply #93: January 27, 2011, 10:28:42 PM »
OK, from what I've gathered, the argument is about how good Harper is, and whether or not he can fail. Fact: He is already very good, especially for his age. At the AFL, far above his age level, he put up a .410 OBP, and I can't remember his SLG or OPS, but I know they were excellent. That was in limited ABs. There was a problem, though. He struck out 31% of his official at-bats. Yes, he was very good, and I'm probabaly nitpicking on this- but the fact is, that's a serious problem. Yes, he was in a much older age group, I get it. Do I believe he'll get over it? Sure. He's in a very good position right now, and he's right on track. But can he fail... of course he can. He'd already have to be a star in the Pros for that not to be an issue. Do I think he'll fail? No, I have no reason to believe that- he's more than exceeded expectations. But there is always the chance he'll bust. Always.

Offline mimontero88

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Re: Harper #3 Overall Prospect
« Reply #94: January 28, 2011, 04:42:11 AM »
OK, from what I've gathered, the argument is about how good Harper is, and whether or not he can fail. Fact: He is already very good, especially for his age. At the AFL, far above his age level, he put up a .410 OBP, and I can't remember his SLG or OPS, but I know they were excellent. That was in limited ABs. There was a problem, though. He struck out 31% of his official at-bats. Yes, he was very good, and I'm probabaly nitpicking on this- but the fact is, that's a serious problem. Yes, he was in a much older age group, I get it. Do I believe he'll get over it? Sure. He's in a very good position right now, and he's right on track. But can he fail... of course he can. He'd already have to be a star in the Pros for that not to be an issue. Do I think he'll fail? No, I have no reason to believe that- he's more than exceeded expectations. But there is always the chance he'll bust. Always.
Well, this is naturally true.  Nothing is guaranteed in life.  I think saying someone is a can't-miss prospect is basically saying that you would bet a significant portion of your wealth that he would pan out without losing any sleep at night and if someone gave me even-money on Harper being a star in the majors (whatever metric would be used to determine that) within the next 5 years I would be willing to wager a pretty hefty sum of money on that with little concern.

EDIT:  Just to add to that (bear with me as I'm up way too late and just got done watching all of Season 1 of How I Met Your Mother, that show is too damn addictive) I could not see a scenario barring major injury where Harper is not at a minimum an average MLB starter.  If that is his absolute floor then I think he should be considered a can't-miss prospect.

Offline tomterp

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Re: Harper #3 Overall Prospect
« Reply #95: January 28, 2011, 09:01:45 AM »
There was a problem, though. He struck out 31% of his official at-bats. Yes, he was very good, and I'm probabaly nitpicking on this- but the fact is, that's a serious problem.

Why do you think this is a serious problem?  Given the rest of the stats are there - OBP, power, primarily - why should I be concerned as to his strikeout totals?

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: Harper #3 Overall Prospect
« Reply #96: January 28, 2011, 09:13:43 AM »
You shouldn't, he's still hit for a .343 average and had a 10% walk rate, so the K rate doesn't mean he's being over powered or that he has a bade eye for the zone

Offline d_mc_nabb

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Re: Harper #3 Overall Prospect
« Reply #97: January 28, 2011, 11:45:46 AM »
Why do you think this is a serious problem?  Given the rest of the stats are there - OBP, power, primarily - why should I be concerned as to his strikeout totals?

I don't. It's just there, and that only proves he's nt the perfect prospect yet. I only referenced it to put to rest the thought that he's a sure thing.

Online blue911

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Re: Harper #3 Overall Prospect
« Reply #98: January 28, 2011, 11:46:47 AM »
He had just turned 18, played in the most elite league in the country after not playing since June. Was allowed to only play twice a week and somebody has the balls to nag about an OPS above 1.000? Jesus Christ on a crutch, what the freak pleases you people?

Offline d_mc_nabb

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Re: Harper #3 Overall Prospect
« Reply #99: January 28, 2011, 11:55:57 AM »
He had just turned 18, played in the most elite league in the country after not playing since June. Was allowed to only play twice a week and somebody has the balls to nag about an OPS above 1.000? Jesus Christ on a crutch, what the freak pleases you people?

Again- I think he will be fine, and a great pro. Everything he's done so far has met very lofty expectations. It's that he is not an all star yet, and it's not 100% guaranteed he'll pan out. That's all.