Author Topic: The Official 2011 MLB Mock Draft Thread  (Read 28936 times)

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Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: The Official 2011 MLB Mock Draft Thread
« Reply #225: March 05, 2011, 09:29:08 PM »
It's interesting to compare the use of Bauer to Gwynn's use of Strasburg.  Gwynn was universally praised for taking care of the kid.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: The Official 2011 MLB Mock Draft Thread
« Reply #226: March 05, 2011, 09:36:00 PM »
There's a trust the players have in their coach. Sending a pitcher out for 10+ innings and 130 pitches breaks that trust.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: The Official 2011 MLB Mock Draft Thread
« Reply #227: March 05, 2011, 10:19:17 PM »
http://nybaseballdigest.com/?p=34460

Here is a mock draft with Hultzen going #7. 

Offline RD

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Re: The Official 2011 MLB Mock Draft Thread
« Reply #228: March 05, 2011, 10:28:20 PM »
Back to Hultzen ... the reason people don't think he's worth the 6th pick is for a couple reasons.

Mainly, IMO, is the depth in the draft. There are legitimate front line starters at the top of this draft. There are a couple big bats at the top as well.

He also doesn't have overpowering stuff. No knockout pitch. He doesn't have mid to high 90's heat. He doesn't have a devastating hook. Doesn't have great size or a frame that says there may be more in the tank. He does have a few quality pitches, has great command, and competes. Those are great traits and will definitely help him be successful. It's just that there isn't anything about him that screams ace, or front of the rotation pitcher. He's a middle/back end of the rotation type. When we already have a couple of those from the left side in our system AND there are front line starters available at the same spot in the draft, you clearly go for the guy that has the brighter future.

Personally, I would rank him higher than both Detwiler and Solis coming out. He'll go lower than Detwiler because of the draft depth though. I dont think anyone is really down on Hultzen - Its just that there are better options at 6 IMO.

Offline daggerrrrrr

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Re: The Official 2011 MLB Mock Draft Thread
« Reply #229: March 05, 2011, 11:07:02 PM »
If I'm Bauer's parent's, I'm pretty pissed at the coach.  If the kid wakes up tomorrow with a tight elbow or sore shoulder, his coach may have cost him hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars.  I'd tell the coach to take his concepts of 'toughness' and shove it up his arse if my kid's future was on the line like that.
+1

Offline daggerrrrrr

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Re: The Official 2011 MLB Mock Draft Thread
« Reply #230: March 05, 2011, 11:29:58 PM »
RD How many of the pitchers projected in the first round can hit? Danny can swing a bat, so I think that would add some extra value to him. And a fastball 92-94 with movement for a left hander is nothing to sneeze at.

Offline RD

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Re: The Official 2011 MLB Mock Draft Thread
« Reply #231: March 06, 2011, 12:37:43 AM »
Like I said, it's not that Hultzen is a bad prospect or I dont like him. He's just not ace material. He is a fine prospect, and in a lot of years, would be worth 6. He's just not this year IMO.

Personally, the fact that he can hit really doesn't matter to me. It definitely is a nice thing to have for an NL team. But 2 AB's a week isn't enough to make him a more valuable prospect than a better pitcher. Grade them on pitching alone. MAYBE, if you had two identical prospects, you could give the edge to the pitcher that can hit. But grading guys with different stuff, it really shouldn't factor in to the equation IMO. Im not taking Hultzen over Jungmann on stuff or the fact that he can hit. I know nobody is saying such, just saying, thats the point Im making.

The consensus is pretty much that Cole, Purke, Jungmann, Gray, and Barnes are better prospects than Hultzen, just among college arms. Depending on the person, you could factor in guys like Bradley and Stilson, also at the college level. Most lists have two or 3 high schools guys(varying names) above Hultzen as well.

With the sixth pick in the draft, theres no reason to draft the 8th or 9th best pitcher. Doesnt matter if he's the best hitter of the group, and doesn't matter that he's local.

If somehow he falls to 23, snag that kid in a minute. Just don't think he's worth 6th overall in this draft.


Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: The Official 2011 MLB Mock Draft Thread
« Reply #232: March 06, 2011, 09:10:52 AM »
Hey RD it sounds like you've seen all these guys pitch a bunch of times.  With Hultzen, it seems like he's able to get a good amount strikeouts with his arsenal of pitches.  You mentioned he had really good command, also.  His UVA bio has him at 6'3" and 200 lbs - http://www.virginiasports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=17800&ATCLID=3634293.  So he's not a monster like Sabathia, but he's not tiny, either. 

I don't know one way or the other and I know I'm not an expert on this stuff, but a lefty who throws in the low nineties with outstanding command who strikes lots of people out while not giving up lots of hits sounds like a really good pitcher to me.  The fact that he's a good hitter and is from Bethesda, MD (also in the UVA bio) are just bonuses to me.  If he keeps up his performance, I'd be pretty excited about him if we took him at 6.

Offline blue911

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Re: The Official 2011 MLB Mock Draft Thread
« Reply #233: March 06, 2011, 09:19:48 AM »
Hey RD it sounds like you've seen all these guys pitch a bunch of times.  With Hultzen, it seems like he's able to get a good amount strikeouts with his arsenal of pitches.  You mentioned he had really good command, also.  His UVA bio has him at 6'3" and 200 lbs - http://www.virginiasports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=17800&ATCLID=3634293.  So he's not a monster like Sabathia, but he's not tiny, either. 

I don't know one way or the other and I know I'm not an expert on this stuff, but a lefty who throws in the low nineties with outstanding command who strikes lots of people out while not giving up lots of hits sounds like a really good pitcher to me.  The fact that he's a good hitter and is from Bethesda, MD (also in the UVA bio) are just bonuses to me.  If he keeps up his performance, I'd be pretty excited about him if we took him at 6.



He got a couple of hits off of Strasburg in the NCAA's in 2009.

Offline d_mc_nabb

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Re: The Official 2011 MLB Mock Draft Thread
« Reply #234: March 06, 2011, 07:10:42 PM »

He got a couple of hits off of Strasburg in the NCAA's in 2009.

Impressive.

But frankly irrelevant.

Not saying that like it's a bad thing, but if he's drafted as a pitcher (where I assume his value is higher) then he's never going to get a chance to hone his batting skills in the minors... Maybe it gives him a little added value as, if he were to bust, he could try again as a hitter, but that's unlikely.

Online Kevrock

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Re: The Official 2011 MLB Mock Draft Thread
« Reply #235: March 06, 2011, 09:05:17 PM »
College coaches usually don't give a damn about pitcher's arms.

It's something that needs to be regulated better.

You're a UVA fan/alum, right? UVA is great with pitch counts. Kuhn has a great system in place to prevent injuries.

 
Trevor Bauer pitching into the 10th.  He's struck out 17 on 128 pitches.  Suprised he's still in the game.  Can't see him in there much longer.

What a freaking joke. Their coaching staff should be fired. It's only March, by the way. Pitchers' arms have not build up tons of strength yet.

Aside from potentially hurting Bauer's career, they need to have their staff intact heading into post season. Burning them out this early in the season is idiotic.

Oh, and btw, if I'm a major league club I absolutely look at college pitch counts and workload. The seeds for arm injuries are planted well before they actually happen.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: The Official 2011 MLB Mock Draft Thread
« Reply #236: March 06, 2011, 09:45:35 PM »
I'm glad UVA does it the right way... but there's way too many schools that don't.

I do hope we draft Hultzen, though... love adding UVA kids to the team!

Offline RD

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Re: The Official 2011 MLB Mock Draft Thread
« Reply #237: March 06, 2011, 11:15:46 PM »
Hey RD it sounds like you've seen all these guys pitch a bunch of times.  With Hultzen, it seems like he's able to get a good amount strikeouts with his arsenal of pitches.  You mentioned he had really good command, also.  His UVA bio has him at 6'3" and 200 lbs - http://www.virginiasports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=17800&ATCLID=3634293.  So he's not a monster like Sabathia, but he's not tiny, either. 

I don't know one way or the other and I know I'm not an expert on this stuff, but a lefty who throws in the low nineties with outstanding command who strikes lots of people out while not giving up lots of hits sounds like a really good pitcher to me.  The fact that he's a good hitter and is from Bethesda, MD (also in the UVA bio) are just bonuses to me.  If he keeps up his performance, I'd be pretty excited about him if we took him at 6.


Im trying to be clear that Im not knocking him. I didnt mean to imply he was small. All I meant was, he's not 6'6 225 that with some tinkering, you might find some more velo. Or that he's 6'6 200 and with some added weight he could add a bit more. He's got solid size - Im just making the point that there really isn't anything that is truly top notch with him. Not size, not heat, not a devastating off speed pitch ... He's very solid across the board. Im not trying to say the kid won't cut it.

I just don't think he's a front line starter in the bigs. With a few guys that do project as 1's or 2's, I think that's the direction we need to go. We've got a slew of guys that project as middle/back end of the rotation, but are lacking in front line guys. So I think we need to use six on a front line starter, not a quality middle rotation guy. Thats my only issue here. Hultzen is a very good player. If we were picking at 12, 13 he could be a good pick. I just think 6 is a reach in this draft.

Online Kevrock

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Re: The Official 2011 MLB Mock Draft Thread
« Reply #238: March 11, 2011, 11:40:10 PM »
Nice insight, RD.

That said, though... Hultzen dominates Clemson.

Quote
Hultzen (4-0) now has 50 strikeouts and just four walks in 27.1 innings this season. He lowered his 2011 ERA to 0.66.

:clap:


Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: The Official 2011 MLB Mock Draft Thread
« Reply #239: March 12, 2011, 09:58:55 AM »
Cliff Lee is listed at 6'3" 190 lbs - http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/l/leecl02.shtml
Cole Hamels is listed at 6'3" 190 lbs - http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/h/hamelco01.shtml

So that's just two examples of similar sized lefties that don't throw in the mid-high nineties but are pretty damn good pitchers.

Again - I'm not definitively saying we should draft Hultzen.  But his size shouldn't be the reason we don't.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: The Official 2011 MLB Mock Draft Thread
« Reply #240: March 12, 2011, 10:05:18 AM »
http://www.prospectjunkies.com/2011/03/2011-college-baseball-prospect-update.html

Here's a good rundown on recent college baseball action.

Jungmann and Sonny Gray were very good, too, in addition to Hultzen.

Hultzen - 6.2 innings, 5 hits, 0 er, 3 walks, 14 strikeouts.

Online Kevrock

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Re: The Official 2011 MLB Mock Draft Thread
« Reply #241: March 12, 2011, 10:08:03 AM »
Cole took a perfect game into the 7th again.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: The Official 2011 MLB Mock Draft Thread
« Reply #242: March 12, 2011, 10:10:02 AM »
Cole took a perfect game into the 7th again.

Let's have a whole staff of Coles.

Offline Tyler Durden

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Re: The Official 2011 MLB Mock Draft Thread
« Reply #243: March 12, 2011, 04:43:12 PM »
• Virginia Jr. LHP/DH Danny Hultzen (6.2 IP, 5 H, 0 R, 3 BB, 14 K) continued his utterly dominant start to the season in a 5-0 win at No. 10 Clemson. Hultzen also led the offense with two RBIs. On the season, he's 4-0, 0.66 with 50 strikeouts and four walks in 27 innings, and he's hitting .368/.447/.526 with a team-leading 15 RBIs. If the season ended today, he might be the front-runner for College Player of the Year honors.

http://www.baseballamerica.com/blog/college/?p=4199

Holy crap Hultzen. 

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: The Official 2011 MLB Mock Draft Thread
« Reply #244: March 12, 2011, 04:55:45 PM »
Hultzen is forcing his way up the draft board!

Offline Nathan

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Re: The Official 2011 MLB Mock Draft Thread
« Reply #245: March 12, 2011, 05:32:10 PM »
Let's have a whole staff of Coles.
Cole's Law.

Offline RD

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Re: The Official 2011 MLB Mock Draft Thread
« Reply #246: March 13, 2011, 12:45:41 AM »
I didnt say we should pass on Hultzen because of his size. I just said that there isn't anything that stands out about him physically - from stuff to size.

He's having a phenomenal year so far. Pitching numbers are amazing this year. The BBCOR bats are clearly having an impact in favor of pitchers this year. Not trying to knock Hultzen because the bats have nothing to do with that ridiculous K/BB ratio, plus the K/IP for him.

Despite his numbers, I have a hard time seeing him go ahead of Cole, Purke, Gray, and Jungmann. With Rendon likely going #1, and at least IMO, KC looking for a bat(probably college, which would likely make it Springer or JBJ), that would leave one of those front line arms available. Id love it if we could add a front line lefty, but its doubtful Purke slides and still think the stuff of Gray/Jungmann is better than Hultzen.

There's still a lot of time to go though before the draft. We'll see how it all plays out. If Hultzen is able to keep this up over the course of the season, he could push his way up because he is a lefty, I just wouldn't bet on it.

Offline epic_phalanx

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Re: The Official 2011 MLB Mock Draft Thread
« Reply #247: March 13, 2011, 04:39:42 PM »
I'm coming around to at least the idea of taking Hultzen at #6. Sounds like he has a chance of being the next Cliff Lee. Not to mention that he might be a first rounder as a hitter if he didn't pitch.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: The Official 2011 MLB Mock Draft Thread
« Reply #248: March 13, 2011, 10:51:56 PM »
College coaches usually don't give a damn about pitcher's arms.

It's something that needs to be regulated better.

Why on earth would a kid who wants to go to the majors play for a coach who wears out pitchers?

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: The Official 2011 MLB Mock Draft Thread
« Reply #249: March 14, 2011, 09:29:43 AM »
You're right.

It never happens.