Author Topic: Trevor Hoffman retires  (Read 522 times)

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Offline imref

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Trevor Hoffman retires
« Topic Start: January 11, 2011, 05:50:28 PM »
HoF worthy?  601 saves.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Trevor Hoffman retires
« Reply #1: January 11, 2011, 06:28:49 PM »
Yes, if accumulation of stats over a long career gets you in, he needs to be in the HOF. I haven't really heard much argument about it, I've just assumed he'd be in on the first ballot, are there people saying he won't get in?

Offline tomterp

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Re: Trevor Hoffman retires
« Reply #2: January 11, 2011, 08:58:52 PM »
No, people are pretty much saying that Rivera and Hoffman will get in without too much angst.

Offline imref

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Re: Trevor Hoffman retires
« Reply #3: January 11, 2011, 09:45:12 PM »
No, people are pretty much saying that Rivera and Hoffman will get in without too much angst.

yeah, that's what i've read.  I'm assuming first ballot for Mo, but Hoffman will have to wait a year.

Offline tomterp

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Re: Trevor Hoffman retires
« Reply #4: January 12, 2011, 08:07:24 AM »
yeah, that's what i've read.  I'm assuming first ballot for Mo, but Hoffman will have to wait a year.

Sounds about right.

Online blue911

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Re: Trevor Hoffman retires
« Reply #5: January 12, 2011, 08:25:56 AM »
If Rivera or Hoffman are first ballot Hall Of Famers, why do people think drafting a relief pitcher in the first round is a mistake?


Offline tomterp

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Re: Trevor Hoffman retires
« Reply #6: January 12, 2011, 08:36:27 AM »
If Rivera or Hoffman are first ballot Hall Of Famers, why do people think drafting a relief pitcher in the first round is a mistake?



How many relievers are in the HOF, and how does this compare to starters?

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Trevor Hoffman retires
« Reply #7: January 12, 2011, 08:37:22 AM »
If Rivera or Hoffman are first ballot Hall Of Famers, why do people think drafting a relief pitcher in the first round is a mistake?



because their longevity makes them the exception to the rule

Online blue911

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Re: Trevor Hoffman retires
« Reply #8: January 12, 2011, 08:43:05 AM »
How many relievers are in the HOF, and how does this compare to starters?

How many teams win on a consistent basis without a prominent reliever?

Online blue911

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Re: Trevor Hoffman retires
« Reply #9: January 12, 2011, 08:44:57 AM »
because their longevity makes them the exception to the rule

Jesse Orosco pitched in more seasons and games than either.

Offline tomterp

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Re: Trevor Hoffman retires
« Reply #10: January 12, 2011, 08:46:49 AM »
How many teams win on a consistent basis without a prominent reliever?

Most relievers are drafted as starters, aren't they?  You don't have to draft a reliever to have one, you can convert a starter, or get one via trade or free-agent signing. 

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Trevor Hoffman retires
« Reply #11: January 12, 2011, 08:51:26 AM »
How many teams win on a consistent basis without a prominent reliever?

The phillies seem to be doing fine.

Online blue911

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Re: Trevor Hoffman retires
« Reply #12: January 12, 2011, 08:56:20 AM »
Most relievers are drafted as starters, aren't they?  You don't have to draft a reliever to have one, you can convert a starter, or get one via trade or free-agent signing. 

Hoffman was a shortstop, just like his brother. Most of the players selected where either starting pitchers or shortstops at some point in the career. Baseball America has said that they are behind the curve when it comes to evaluating college closers. Maybe because too many people hold onto an outdated belief that failed starters make good relievers.

Online blue911

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Re: Trevor Hoffman retires
« Reply #13: January 12, 2011, 08:58:16 AM »
The phillies seem to be doing fine.

Brad Lidge is inconsistent. Maybe if they had drafted a closer they wouldn't be short on bullpen arms this season.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Trevor Hoffman retires
« Reply #14: January 12, 2011, 09:02:39 AM »
Last season we flipped Matt Capps, a closer who was leading the league in saves and playing out of his mind for Wilson Ramos. Show me an example of a position player leading the league in a major stat or a starting pitcher leading in wins flipped for so little at the trade deadline

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Trevor Hoffman retires
« Reply #15: January 12, 2011, 09:09:55 AM »
Why does everything semi-relating to relief pitching lead to an argument about the flipping Storen selection?

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Trevor Hoffman retires
« Reply #16: January 12, 2011, 09:39:57 AM »
Because the Lerners Are Cheap. :poke:

Online blue911

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Re: Trevor Hoffman retires
« Reply #17: January 12, 2011, 09:40:10 AM »
Last season we flipped Matt Capps, a closer who was leading the league in saves and playing out of his mind for Wilson Ramos. Show me an example of a position player leading the league in a major stat or a starting pitcher leading in wins flipped for so little at the trade deadline

Saves are a terrible stat and everybody above the age of 3 knows that.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Trevor Hoffman retires
« Reply #18: January 12, 2011, 09:40:56 AM »
How many teams win on a consistent basis without a prominent reliever?
ATL and . . .?

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Trevor Hoffman retires
« Reply #19: January 12, 2011, 09:53:53 AM »
Saves are a terrible stat and everybody above the age of 3 knows that.

nonetheless, Capps was a dominant reliever at the time he was traded and we got Ramos, show me an equally dominant starter or position player traded for so little.

Online blue911

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Re: Trevor Hoffman retires
« Reply #20: January 12, 2011, 10:21:23 AM »
nonetheless, Capps was a dominant reliever at the time he was traded and we got Ramos, show me an equally dominant starter or position player traded for so little.

You're the only person that considers Capps dominant. Most think he was around average for a back of the bullpen guy.

Offline PatsNats28

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Re: Trevor Hoffman retires
« Reply #21: January 12, 2011, 11:16:40 AM »
If a closer can make it into the HOF, why can't a DH? I don't get this.

Online blue911

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Re: Trevor Hoffman retires
« Reply #22: January 12, 2011, 11:20:56 AM »
If a closer can make it into the HOF, why can't a DH? I don't get this.

Because people get caught up in 50 year old thinking and can't adapt with the game.

Offline Kevrock

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Re: Trevor Hoffman retires
« Reply #23: January 12, 2011, 11:22:31 AM »
If a closer can make it into the HOF, why can't a DH? I don't get this.

I believe there are only five relief pitchers in the HOF.

How many primary DHs are in the Hall and who got excluded because they didn't play in the field? I haven't really thought about this before.

Offline HalfSmokes

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Re: Trevor Hoffman retires
« Reply #24: January 12, 2011, 11:26:28 AM »
You're the only person that considers Capps dominant. Most think he was around average for a back of the bullpen guy.

If you really think closers are as valuable as position players and starters, why do the best closers have contracts for less money and fewer years than the best position players and starters?