Author Topic: HOF CLASS OF 2011  (Read 844 times)

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Offline dcsprtsfn75

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HOF CLASS OF 2011
« Topic Start: January 05, 2011, 02:25:23 PM »
Blyleven and alomar win induction. Alomar got 90%, Blyleven 79%.

Bagwell 41%, Palmeiro 11%, Mcgwire 19%.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: HOF CLASS OF 2011
« Reply #1: January 05, 2011, 02:27:28 PM »
What percentage before the two clowns at the bottom are dropped from the ballot?

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: HOF CLASS OF 2011
« Reply #2: January 05, 2011, 03:26:18 PM »
What percentage before the two clowns at the bottom are dropped from the ballot?

I think it's <15%

Offline imref

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Re: HOF CLASS OF 2011
« Reply #3: January 05, 2011, 03:38:05 PM »
Bad day for Raffy, a guy who's numbers should have easily put him into the hall.  Larkin should get in next year.  I'd still like to see Morris get in.

Offline Minty Fresh

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Re: HOF CLASS OF 2011
« Reply #4: January 05, 2011, 03:42:59 PM »
I'm tired of "benchmark numbers" automatically granting players a free pass to the Hall.  With all of the way offensive numbers have gone way up (and not just steroids:  smaller parks, lower mounds, better technology, the DH, etc.) numbers need to be put into perspective.  A 500+ homerun hitter nowadays ain't what it was 25 years ago.

Offline tomterp

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Re: HOF CLASS OF 2011
« Reply #5: January 05, 2011, 10:01:42 PM »
Bad day for Raffy, a guy who's numbers should have easily put him into the hall. 

Except perhaps for that late career boost he got from the 'roids.  Knock 150 HR's or so off his accumulations and see how he stacks up.

Regardless, he was never a dominant player at any time.  Good, never great.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: HOF CLASS OF 2011
« Reply #6: January 06, 2011, 10:33:41 AM »
I think it's <15%
5%.

I saw how Tom Davis now thinks Palmeiro never intentionally took steroids.  He says they investigated and basically believed he did not intentionally lie to the committee, which may explain why no perjury charges like Clemens.  I forget if it was testimony to committee investigators that got Tejada tied up in perjury.  In any event, I don't think it is incredible to believe he got tainted stuff from Tejada.  Whether he was an idiot to inject B-12 or anything from another player is another matter, but Raffy's HOF bid is not based on his intelligence.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: HOF CLASS OF 2011
« Reply #7: January 06, 2011, 11:41:49 AM »
Still sad Edgar Martinez isn't getting more of a look.

To me, DH'ing in the AL is no different than pitching in the AL. Both positions only hold one purpose... if you're great at what you do; and top 1% at your position... you should be elected into the Hall, regardless of the position you played.

Same goes for Lee Smith.

Offline tomterp

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Re: HOF CLASS OF 2011
« Reply #8: January 06, 2011, 11:57:08 AM »
Still sad Edgar Martinez isn't getting more of a look.

To me, DH'ing in the AL is no different than pitching in the AL. Both positions only hold one purpose... if you're great at what you do; and top 1% at your position... you should be elected into the Hall, regardless of the position you played.

Problem is, DH is not a position, it's half a position.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: HOF CLASS OF 2011
« Reply #9: January 06, 2011, 11:58:36 AM »
Isn't pitcher in the AL half a position, as well?

Offline tomterp

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Re: HOF CLASS OF 2011
« Reply #10: January 06, 2011, 12:09:01 PM »
Isn't pitcher in the AL half a position, as well?

Pretty much.

Though I concede that for a position player, the batting half is more important than the fielding/defense half, just as for a pitcher the opposite is true.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: HOF CLASS OF 2011
« Reply #11: January 06, 2011, 12:10:13 PM »
Which is kind of my whole point... if there's a spot in the lineup/mound for you... and you do your job at the top 1% of the top 1% in the world... I think you deserve to be recognized for it... and in my mind... Edgar was one of the purest hitters we'll ever see from the right side of the plate.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: HOF CLASS OF 2011
« Reply #12: January 06, 2011, 12:42:52 PM »
If Tom Davis believes Raffi, I believe Davis. Raffi is clearly just an idiot.

Offline KnorrForYourMoney

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Re: HOF CLASS OF 2011
« Reply #13: January 07, 2011, 01:05:59 AM »
Great class this year! :clap: It's about f'n time for Blyleven.  I hope Larkin and Raines can make it in some day.  Larkin likely will.  Raines could take some time, if at all, but it was nice to see him go up this year.  It was also nice to see Jack Morris go down.

I'm tired of "benchmark numbers" automatically granting players a free pass to the Hall.  With all of the way offensive numbers have gone way up (and not just steroids:  smaller parks, lower mounds, better technology, the DH, etc.) numbers need to be put into perspective.  A 500+ homerun hitter nowadays ain't what it was 25 years ago.

I agree with your thesis here.

But I wouldn't apply it to Palmeiro.  On numbers alone, he should go in.  500 HR + 3,000 hits truly is a tremendous combination.

About the steroids, I kind of agree with JCA.  I'm starting to find more plausibility in some of his seemingly ridiculous excuses from before.  I don't like relying on the word of Tom "Orioles homer moron" Davis, though.

Re: Edgar - I think he's a great player, and this passage from Jayson Stark's book really opened my eyes about how exceptional a hitter he was.  That said, I still don't know if I'd call him HOF-worthy.

Online blue911

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Re: HOF CLASS OF 2011
« Reply #14: January 07, 2011, 06:47:08 AM »
Edgar was a better hitter than Paul Molitor. His main problem is he played for a small market team in the NW, if he had played for Boston or New York he'd be in already.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: HOF CLASS OF 2011
« Reply #15: January 07, 2011, 07:19:14 AM »
Knorr, that's Tom Davis the congressman, not Tom Davis sports talk show guy.

Offline tomterp

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Re: HOF CLASS OF 2011
« Reply #16: January 07, 2011, 09:35:19 AM »
Knorr, that's Tom Davis the congressman, not Tom Davis sports talk show guy.

 :crackup:

Tom Davis, who played an important role in getting the Nats into town.    :clap:

One of those reasonable, pragmatic Republicans who are now an extinct breed.    :(

Online blue911

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Re: HOF CLASS OF 2011
« Reply #17: January 07, 2011, 09:37:54 AM »
:crackup:

Tom Davis, who played an important role in getting the Nats into town.    :clap:

One of those reasonable, pragmatic Republicans Politicians who are now an extinct breed.    :(

fixed. there are enough asshats on both sides of the aisle.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: HOF CLASS OF 2011
« Reply #18: January 07, 2011, 09:50:58 AM »
The only way Raffy gets a bump up would be if Tejada came out and said, "yes, I used the stuff and there may have been stuff in the syringe I gave Palmeiro.  He did not know and was not looking for steroids."  Even with that, I'm not sure he gets in. It would be the right thing for Tejadato do, so I'm not holding my breath.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: HOF CLASS OF 2011
« Reply #19: January 07, 2011, 10:41:52 AM »
:crackup:

Tom Davis, who played an important role in getting the Nats into town.    :clap:

One of those reasonable, pragmatic Republicans who are now an extinct breed.    :(

Davis got out of dodge just in time.  good guy.

Online HalfSmokes

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Re: HOF CLASS OF 2011
« Reply #20: January 07, 2011, 11:45:09 AM »
The only way Raffy gets a bump up would be if Tejada came out and said, "yes, I used the stuff and there may have been stuff in the syringe I gave Palmeiro.  He did not know and was not looking for steroids."  Even with that, I'm not sure he gets in. It would be the right thing for Tejadato do, so I'm not holding my breath.

does someone really stick a borrowed needle into their ass and not know contraband may be involved?

Offline tomterp

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Re: HOF CLASS OF 2011
« Reply #21: January 07, 2011, 02:12:35 PM »
does someone really stick a borrowed needle into their ass and not know contraband may be involved?

No, only addicts.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: HOF CLASS OF 2011
« Reply #22: January 07, 2011, 02:24:59 PM »
does someone really stick a borrowed needle into their ass and not know contraband may be involved?
Obviously, this guy is stupid.  The question is whether he's dumb enough to use steroids or dumb enough to use someone else's stash of whatever.

Online blue911

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Re: HOF CLASS OF 2011
« Reply #23: January 07, 2011, 03:20:26 PM »
Obviously, this guy is stupid.  The question is whether he's dumb enough to use steroids or dumb enough to use someone else's stash of whatever.

Or he's a cheat and a liar.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: HOF CLASS OF 2011
« Reply #24: January 07, 2011, 08:42:55 PM »
Or he's a cheat and a liar.
and stupid. Other than that, a role model.