Author Topic: Payroll Flexibility.....  (Read 4074 times)

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Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Payroll Flexibility.....
« Reply #50: December 20, 2010, 09:55:13 PM »
75 wins is moving towards 500, isn't it?

Offline GMUNat

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Re: Payroll Flexibility.....
« Reply #51: December 20, 2010, 09:58:04 PM »
75 wins is moving towards 500, isn't it?
The problem with that is in 2012 the natural progression is 78-83 wins which is .500. At that point, fans would probably grow restless of a plan that failed for 7 years.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Payroll Flexibility.....
« Reply #52: December 20, 2010, 09:59:52 PM »
What is real fun to do is ignore the deal that was agreed upon in principle for ace.

The deal you blasted? And said we were lucky to not have agreed to?

Offline PC

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Re: Payroll Flexibility.....
« Reply #53: December 20, 2010, 10:01:03 PM »
The problem with that is in 2012 the natural progression is 78-83 wins which is .500. At that point, fans would probably grow restless of a plan that failed for 7 years.

And we'd still be publicly rejected, singularly and by name, by free agents and at the top of every player's no-trade list.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Payroll Flexibility.....
« Reply #54: December 20, 2010, 10:01:16 PM »
The deal you blasted? And said we were lucky to not have agreed to?

The original version had no JZ in it. As for the second statement, that was Kilgore.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Payroll Flexibility.....
« Reply #55: December 20, 2010, 10:03:19 PM »
The original version had no JZ in it. As for the second statement, that was Kilgore.

So what is it? You like the deal because it showed the Nats willing to spend... or like yesterday, you hated it?

Offline tomterp

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Re: Payroll Flexibility.....
« Reply #56: December 20, 2010, 10:04:10 PM »
Chiefs already had an excellent career minor league first baseman in Josh Whitesell.   Aubrey is a rehab project who they probably think has a chance at starting a few games at 1st for the MLB team, and has a price tag that fits the Lerner budget.

I don't really care who they sign to play 1st at Syracuse, though if he had upside potential, like a former high draft pick who had been injured and might bounce back, then fine.  Whatever happened to Whitesell anyway, is he still in the system?

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Payroll Flexibility.....
« Reply #57: December 20, 2010, 10:06:03 PM »
I don't really care who they sign to play 1st at Syracuse, though if he had upside potential, like a former high draft pick who had been injured and might bounce back, then fine.  Whatever happened to Whitesell anyway, is he still in the system?

Went to Japan.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Payroll Flexibility.....
« Reply #58: December 20, 2010, 10:11:13 PM »
So what is it? You like the deal because it showed the Nats willing to spend... or like yesterday, you hated it?

I like the deal without JZ, how is that hard to understand? You are being obnoxious.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Payroll Flexibility.....
« Reply #59: December 20, 2010, 10:18:55 PM »
The Red Sox have $30+ million plus tied up in Lackey and Beckett alone. Throw in Crawford and Youk and you get another ~$30 million. That's four players who account for more than the Nationals opening day payroll last year, just looking quickly at Cotts, it appears the Sox have about as much committed (excluding options) for 2014 as the Nats 2010 opening day payroll, and that's before Gonzalez gets extended. It's easier to be flexible with a real budget.
true.  The Lackey contract was bad; thought so at the time.  I was just saying that long term commitments are something to be careful about and that I prefer overpaying in AAV to going to long in years.  The latter straps you in terms of flexibility.  You become reluctant to displace a guy if you have a lot of out year commitments to him.

w/r/t the Nats, Sheinin's biggest problem is that the Nats are nowhere near a point where raw dollars committed should be an issue.  It would be different if Orlando Cabrera, Adam LaRoche, and a few other declining guys were locked up for 3 - 4 years.  Those kind of contracts get in the way when you do develop a guy or a good guy becomes available on the trade or FA market.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Payroll Flexibility.....
« Reply #60: December 20, 2010, 10:24:00 PM »
can we get an eta on that?
In 2013, harper should be ready, Stras back from the TJ, JZ as good as he's going to get, RZ and Werth is still under contract, and Norris should be ready.  That is the year you should see Rizzo pointing too.  4 out of 8 positional players that could be star level.  If 2013 is the target, then that means letting the MIs sort themselves out, that the first baseman has to be identified, and we will need a CF.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Payroll Flexibility.....
« Reply #61: December 20, 2010, 10:24:57 PM »
2013?
saw this after I wrote previous post.  Ignored you while at CCSP.

Offline JCA-CrystalCity

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Re: Payroll Flexibility.....
« Reply #62: December 20, 2010, 10:29:32 PM »
So I take it they're not going to be playing games in 2011 & 2012?  What do we do those years, just watch the losses mount?

And what happens in 2013, after two more seasons of 90+ (or 100+) losses, when free agents are still staying away like the plague?  I guess that means they'll still have payroll flexibility.
What I would do is sign short term, high dollar contracts with guys who may not be part of that 2013 team.  Guys who can be flipped, guys who are better than what you have, guys who can fill in while the Norrises and the Harpers develop.  They aren't doing that, and it is a legit LAC complaint.  dunn, 4 years, might not have been right for that strategy, but Lee, 2 years, might be.

Offline spidernat

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Re: Payroll Flexibility.....
« Reply #63: December 20, 2010, 10:30:52 PM »
I'll bet a 1 month ban that they have an actual contract offer out to Lee.


Let's bet the 2011 season on the opening day payroll.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Payroll Flexibility.....
« Reply #64: December 20, 2010, 10:33:33 PM »

Let's bet the 2011 season on the opening day payroll.

NO

Offline NeedaNewNick

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Re: Payroll Flexibility.....
« Reply #65: December 20, 2010, 10:33:35 PM »
I don't really care who they sign to play 1st at Syracuse

he wasn't signed for Syracuse, they're rolling the dice with him making the MLB team

Whitesell is playing in Japan now, his OBP in Syracuse was over .400, he should've been given the chance they're now giving to Aubrey.

Offline spidernat

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Offline PANatsFan

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Offline PC

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Re: Payroll Flexibility.....
« Reply #68: December 20, 2010, 10:48:21 PM »
I'd like to bet they don't sign Lee or LaRoche (me taking the "they won't" side) but I'm so afraid that this might be true and I don't know how I could "celebrate" winning.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Payroll Flexibility.....
« Reply #69: December 20, 2010, 10:51:21 PM »
I'll bet a 1 month ban that they have an actual contract offer out to Lee.

What would you have bet that they put an actual offer out to Dunn?

How much would any of us bet?

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Payroll Flexibility.....
« Reply #70: December 20, 2010, 10:51:55 PM »
What would you have bet that they put an actual offer out to Dunn?

How much would any of us bet?

The 3/37 too little too late I believe took place.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Payroll Flexibility.....
« Reply #71: December 20, 2010, 10:57:46 PM »
The 3/37 too little too late I believe took place.

According to Dunn, it never did.

Unless you mean the token one Rizzo sent out after Dunn told him to stick it.

Offline PANatsFan

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Re: Payroll Flexibility.....
« Reply #72: December 20, 2010, 10:59:31 PM »
According to Dunn, it never did.

Unless you mean the token one Rizzo sent out after Dunn told him to stick it.

Yeah, that.

Offline Lintyfresh85

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Re: Payroll Flexibility.....
« Reply #73: December 20, 2010, 11:00:41 PM »
That's why I'd never bet on what offer the Nats have out there... you never really know with Rizzo, it seems.

Offline The Chief

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Re: Payroll Flexibility.....
« Reply #74: December 20, 2010, 11:19:35 PM »
That's why I'd never bet on what offer the Nats have out there... you never really know with Rizzo, it seems.

Rizzo thumbing his nose at Dunn is just a continuation of the same old, same old.  Whatever root cause you or anyone else prefers to believe in, never betting on the Nats is proven and safe because of their track record, not just because of Rizzo.